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The Evolutionist play book.

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ikester7579

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Rules for radicals. If you ever wondered why evolutionists act the way they do towards Christians-creationists. Here's why. It's all planned and learned.

1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."

2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication.

3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."

7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."

8. "Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."

9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."

10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."

11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."

12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...

"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'

"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)

This is the atheist-evolutionist playbook. Here is more:

*ego ("reaching for the highest level for which man can reach — to create, to be a 'great creator,' to play God"),
*curiosity (raising "questions that agitate, that break through the accepted pattern"),
* irreverence ("nothing is sacred"; the organizer "detests dogma, defies any finite definition of morality"),
* imagination ("the fuel for the force that keeps an organizer organizing"),
*a sense of humor ("the most potent weapons known to mankind are satire and ridicule"), and an
* organized personality with confidence in presenting the right reason for his actions only "as a moral rationalization after the right end has been achieved.'...

"'The organizer's first job is to create the issues or problems,' and 'organizations must be based on many issues.' The organizer 'must first rub raw the resentments of the people of the community; fan the latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expression. He must search out controversy and issues, rather than avoid them, for unless there is controversy people are not concerned enough to act. . . . An organizer must stir up dissatisfaction and discontent.'"

And who was the book dedicated to?

"Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history... the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer."
Saul Alinsky
http://books.google.com/books?id=yHDBnUGF8...ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA
 

Papias

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Ikester, you are aware that most of the support for evolution comes from Christians, not atheists, and that most of those who helped establish evolution and modern, 4.6 billion year geology were Christians, and that evolution is supported by many clergy, both Protestant and Catholic as supporting Christianity's core doctrines, right?

Treating a friend like an enemy is not helpful to the cause of Christ, not to mention whether it is Christ-like behavior or not.

Papias
 
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ikester7579

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This is golden. So much deception and denial at this forum it's mind boggling. You guys cannot even hold a debate without bringing up majority view as if that makes everything true. Is that now how you prove things in science? I guess that's the mindset you get when truth is relative and there are no absolutes.

The book speaks out against Christians specifically, which means it's a book for atheists. And most atheist believe in evolution, so it also applies to evolutionist. Besides, can you name another group besides yourselves that use these tactics, then show this by example? No? I did not think so. Nice try.
 
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Mr Dave

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Ikester, you are aware that most of the support for evolution comes from Christians, not atheists, and that most of those who helped establish evolution and modern, 4.6 billion year geology were Christians, and that evolution is supported by many clergy, both Protestant and Catholic as supporting Christianity's core doctrines, right?

Treating a friend like an enemy is not helpful to the cause of Christ, not to mention whether it is Christ-like behavior or not.

Papias

:thumbsup:

Also, since when was it "radical" to be a Christian who holds to evolution. Everywhere outside the USA, if there are any creationists in a country, they are a tiny minority there who are on the fringe.
 
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Mr Dave

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The book speaks out against Christians specifically, which means it's a book for atheists.

You're the one who said that radicals "pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it".

There are more groups than Creationist Christianity and Atheism.
 
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sfs

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This is golden. So much deception and denial at this forum it's mind boggling. You guys cannot even hold a debate without bringing up majority view as if that makes everything true. Is that now how you prove things in science? I guess that's the mindset you get when truth is relative and there are no absolutes.

The book speaks out against Christians specifically, which means it's a book for atheists. And most atheist believe in evolution, so it also applies to evolutionist. Besides, can you name another group besides yourselves that use these tactics, then show this by example?

No? I did not think so. Nice try.
If anything every convinces me that Christianity is completely false, it will be people like you.
 
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ikester7579

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You're the one who said that radicals "pick the target, freeze it, personalize it and polarize it".

There are more groups than Creationist Christianity and Atheism.

Nice deception. It's quotes from the book. If you are to lazy to go look it up, not my problem. There are several excerpts on the web. I got those from the web.
 
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Mr Dave

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Nice deception. It's quotes from the book. If you are to lazy to go look it up, not my problem. There are several excerpts on the web. I got those from the web.

And you're the one who accepted it as true enough to quote it. If you had any problems with it, you would have left that bit off. As it stands until you can say you don't agree with that and explain why if not agreeing with it you still quoted it, then I can only assume that it is a view that share.

The was no deception, you quoted something which it appears you agree with. There is nothing deceptive about saying that there are more people out there than creationist Christians and atheists; these are not the only two options available to people.
 
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sfs

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Nice, another reverse of guilt attempt. I'd like to see you use that excuse at the judgment throne.
Nice, another reverse of guilt attempt. Are you going to use that excuse to explain away all of the people you've turned away from Christianity?
 
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Mallon

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The book speaks out against Christians specifically, which means it's a book for atheists.
It might surprise you to learn that this is a Christian subforum. That is, we are all Christians here, whether we subscribe to YECism or evolution. Why you are comparing Christian evolutionists here to atheists is beyond me. Our common faith in Christ is what binds us together, not what we believe about the age of the earth.
 
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matthewgar

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Funny how many of those tatctics are either ones many people use, some because they are good ones, or are tactics alot of creationists use.

Lets see wich ones are ironic.

**2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication.**

This is just common sense, you don't send someone whose a expert on astronomy to try to debate on evolution or biology, or physics, unless they are a expert on astrophysics or the sort. I fail to see how this is a tactic as much as common sense or some how bad.

**3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)**

Creationists tactic #1, also known as the gish shuffle, how many videos on youtube that are responses to, "10 questions evolutionists can't answer." and the 3/4's of the answers are, "Thats not evolution or biology." Lets see topics every evolutionary scientist or lamen must know about to answer questions from a cretaionist on, "Evolutionary biology", geology, abiogenesis, cosmology, astronomy, physics and many more,they must be up to date on every single field and every known bit of information, or if they can't answer a single question even if unrelated and as obscure, or even out of date as possible, evolution is false.

**5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."**

Technically for creationists these ones tend to fit together, half the arguments against creationism or even thigns in general are, "Argumentum ad consequentium." How many, "Well you just want to be a monkey, or you want to excuse having no morals. Or, if were all descended from animals, then we might as well act like animals." and many other emotional appeals, and ridicule, and they are all stupid.

Evolution could turn every single person into mindless, homicidal child eating comunist atheists, hellbent on killing everything on the planet, and it still wouldn't prove or disprove evolution, what you think of something, or what you like or dislike about something doesn't change wether it's true. It's funny many creationists will sit there and refuse to accept, "Well your gods a evil maniacle maniac." as a excuse not to believe, some even going as far to say well he's just as he is, but will then turn around and use the same argument against others. I find this argument the worst, because it's this idea that how much yu want something to not be true, or to be true some how makes it so, and it hurts any arguments you might have in your favour.

**9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."**

two words pascals wager, and three words, "Argumentum ad consequentium." again.

**10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."**

Gee, sound like creationist/Idists tactics, strike multiple places, when you fail in one place try again elsewhere, even change your name and stripes, but use everything from before with different lables.
 
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brinny

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Rules for radicals. If you ever wondered why evolutionists act the way they do towards Christians-creationists. Here's why. It's all planned and learned.



This is the atheist-evolutionist playbook. Here is more:



And who was the book dedicated to?


Saul Alinsky
http://books.google.com/books?id=yHDBnUGF8...ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA

This stood out most for me:

"Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history... the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer."

But of course, what begs to be said here, is, the 'rest of the story'....which is the downfall of the one it all is dedicated to. On a fast track to their own demise, partying along the way, and all built on a big ol' lie from the father of lies himself. They've been had.

Interesting post. Thank you.
 
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