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The Evolution of Morality
- Thread starter biggles53
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Oncedeceived
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Ok if morality is subjective there is no universal objective morality. If morality is subjective it can change and be different universally.
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First, there is a good book that walks through exactly how a naturalistic morality would be expected to evolve. Anyone interested in this topic should read this, otherwise they are ignorant of much of the discussion. This is especially true of those who don't know the ins and outs of how a naturalistic morality is said to have formed.
The Moral Animal: Why We Are, the Way We Are: The New Science of Evolutionary Psychology: Robert Wright: 9780679763994: Amazon.com: Books
Loudmouth wrote:
Right. I mean, mathematics is naturally derived, and it's objective.
Once wrote
Look, I know that our Bibles have different books, but mine, and I think likely yours, does include Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Judges, and so on.
In all of those there are many, many examples of God both killing innocents, and God telling Israel to kill innocents. Did you not read Genesis 8, or the killing of the firstborn in Exodus, or the many instances of genocide ordered by God in Numbers, Judges, etc? What did any of those literally thousands of two year olds done to deserve death? Or God delighted to be presented with a basketful of slaughtered child heads in 2kings? If you want to go over specific instances, we can - but the having read many of these books, the enormity of your denial amazes me.
In Christ Jesus
Papias
The Moral Animal: Why We Are, the Way We Are: The New Science of Evolutionary Psychology: Robert Wright: 9780679763994: Amazon.com: Books
Loudmouth wrote:
Right. I mean, mathematics is naturally derived, and it's objective.
Once wrote
Look, I know that our Bibles have different books, but mine, and I think likely yours, does include Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Judges, and so on.
In all of those there are many, many examples of God both killing innocents, and God telling Israel to kill innocents. Did you not read Genesis 8, or the killing of the firstborn in Exodus, or the many instances of genocide ordered by God in Numbers, Judges, etc? What did any of those literally thousands of two year olds done to deserve death? Or God delighted to be presented with a basketful of slaughtered child heads in 2kings? If you want to go over specific instances, we can - but the having read many of these books, the enormity of your denial amazes me.
In Christ Jesus
Papias
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Oncedeceived
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Considering I haven't read the material, you will have to summarize the argument.
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Once wrote:
OK, I'll try to give a breif summary of some major points.
First, take a group of creatures with memory. Memory means that they will remember the past behaviors of others. This sets up a prisoner's dilemma like situation due to the low cost of helping others compared to the payoff of being helped. Many computer models have shown that in this situation, many aspects of morality are selected for simply based on fitness.
Now, add social hierarchy, and similar work shows that these directly add to other aspects of our moral code. Similar expansions can be made for many sexual interactions, taboos, and so on.
I can't do anything near justice to a 500 page book in a couple paragraphs, so you'll have to read it yourself. However, I found that getting it on Audible and listening to it during my commute was much more time-effective (and made my commute a lot more interesting!).
Papias
OK, I'll try to give a breif summary of some major points.
First, take a group of creatures with memory. Memory means that they will remember the past behaviors of others. This sets up a prisoner's dilemma like situation due to the low cost of helping others compared to the payoff of being helped. Many computer models have shown that in this situation, many aspects of morality are selected for simply based on fitness.
Now, add social hierarchy, and similar work shows that these directly add to other aspects of our moral code. Similar expansions can be made for many sexual interactions, taboos, and so on.
I can't do anything near justice to a 500 page book in a couple paragraphs, so you'll have to read it yourself. However, I found that getting it on Audible and listening to it during my commute was much more time-effective (and made my commute a lot more interesting!).
Papias
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Oncedeceived
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So morality is not universal or objective. Morality is only what is right for you or right for me but there is no actual truth in morality?
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Oncedeceived
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For morality to be objective it must have truth, it is true for something to be morally right or wrong.
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Also, man made scientific theories are objective. You can still have an objective system even if it is produced by humans.
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Oncedeceived
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There are things that are universally accepted as immoral or moral. For instance, murder is considered universally considered immoral.
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That's not exactly correct. Murder is just another way of saying "immoral killing". It is true that there is a concept of immoral killing in each culture, but there is no universal agreement of what is and isn't murder. What constitutes an immoral killing changes from one society to the next.
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