The 'evolution' of food

[OldWiseGuy]

Argument for popularity is irrelevant. Evolution is valid because it can be tested and verified. Creationism can not.

Creation doesn't need to be 'verified'. It either is or it isn't. I vote "is".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Are you admitting to being closed minded?

In many ways, yes, and that's one of them. Closed minded in that I have set my direction and won't be led off my path. I am open to better ways of accomplishing my goals (for whatever that's worth).

There's more at stake here than meets the eye, which I'm afraid has already been blinded.

 

[Kylie]

Creation doesn't need to be 'verified'. It either is or it isn't. I vote "is".

As soon as you say that it doesn't need to be verified, it loses all credibility as a valid explanation.

I say "is not." Thus creationism is false. Case closed.

See how it doesn't work when you ignore verification?

 

[Kylie]

In many ways, yes, and that's one of them.

There's more at stake here than meets the eye, which I'm afraid has already been blinded.

Do you think being closed minded is a good thing?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

As soon as you say that it doesn't need to be verified, it loses all credibility as a valid explanation.

I say "is not." Thus creationism is false. Case closed.

See how it doesn't work when you ignore verification?

Believing evolution wouldn't work for me. I don't have the right mindset.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Do you think being closed minded is a good thing?

In many respects, yes. Once your mind is made up about something you can get on with your life. Believing evolution is incompatible with the way my mind works. It would like throwing a wrench into the gears.

 

[Kylie]

Believing evolution wouldn't work for me. I don't have the right mindset.

Do you think truth is determined by the mindset you have? If so, how can two people with two different mindsets have two different truths? Does the world work in different ways for each of them?

In many respects, yes. Once your mind is made up about something you can get on with your life. Believing evolution is incompatible with the way my mind works. It would like throwing a wrench into the gears.

But what if you are wrong? Don't you think it's better to be open to new ideas, and then to accept those new ideas if testing shows them to be correct?

What you're describing seems to be intellectual laziness. You've decided on something and you don't want to examine it critically because if you do you might have to change your worldview and you can't be bothered.

 

[pitabread]

But what if you are wrong? Don't you think it's better to be open to new ideas, and then to accept those new ideas if testing shows them to be correct?

IMHO, you're encountering the psychological divide between creationists and non-creationists. One aspect of this is need for closure. Those with high need for closure don't tolerate uncertainty and tend to be more closed off to new ideas. Not surprisingly, studies show that religious fundamentalists/creationists have higher need for for closure than most.

Being open to new ideas means accepting a degree of uncertainty about things. For those with high need for closure, that uncertainty is uncomfortable.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

IMHO, you're encountering the psychological divide between creationists and non-creationists. One aspect of this is need for closure. Those with high need for closure don't tolerate uncertainty and tend to be more closed off to new ideas. Not surprisingly, studies show that religious fundamentalists/creationists have higher need for for closure than most.

Being open to new ideas means accepting a degree of uncertainty about things. For those with high need for closure, that uncertainty is uncomfortable.

In my case uncertainty equals disorder. But you have made a good point.

I'll fall back on my oft quoted example of the shopping carts. There is one way and only one way to put them away...neatly and in order. Any other way is disorder, and is a reflection of the thinking, or lack of, by most. Sadly this kind of 'thinking' is reflected by all levels of society.

 

[Kylie]

IMHO, you're encountering the psychological divide between creationists and non-creationists. One aspect of this is need for closure. Those with high need for closure don't tolerate uncertainty and tend to be more closed off to new ideas. Not surprisingly, studies show that religious fundamentalists/creationists have higher need for for closure than most.

Being open to new ideas means accepting a degree of uncertainty about things. For those with high need for closure, that uncertainty is uncomfortable.

Interesting point. I like the closure I get with verifiable facts though, I'm curious as to why creationists don't also appreciate the strength that verification lends to an argument.

 

[Kylie]

In my case uncertainty equals disorder. But you have made a good point.

I'll fall back on my oft quoted example of the shopping carts. There is one way and only one way to put them away...neatly and in order. Any other way is disorder, and is a reflection of the thinking, or lack of, by most. Sadly this kind of 'thinking' is reflected by all levels of society.

Of course, if someone says that they have a way of putting them away that is neater and more orderly, AND they have a way to demonstrate that their way is neater and more orderly than yours, are you going to ignore them?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Of course, if someone says that they have a way of putting them away that is neater and more orderly, AND they have a way to demonstrate that their way is neater and more orderly than yours, are you going to ignore them?

There is only one way to properly organize shopping carts. It's the way you almost never see.

I'm always exploring better ways of doing things. I'm known for my innovations and efficiency.

Just the other day I developed a new technique for flossing teeth.

 

[Kylie]

There is only one way to properly organize shopping carts. It's the way you almost never see.

I'm always exploring better ways of doing things. I'm known for my innovations and efficiency.

Just the other day I developed a new technique for flossing teeth.

So why is it that you are open to some new things, but not to others?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

IMHO, you're encountering the psychological divide between creationists and non-creationists. One aspect of this is need for closure. Those with high need for closure don't tolerate uncertainty and tend to be more closed off to new ideas. Not surprisingly, studies show that religious fundamentalists/creationists have higher need for for closure than most.

Being open to new ideas means accepting a degree of uncertainty about things. For those with high need for closure, that uncertainty is uncomfortable.

Interesting that there is a strong correlation between conservative views and intolerance of uncertainty, novelty, and change. This supports the expectation that we should find a greater percentage of fundamentalists and creationists among conservatives.

 

[Ophiolite]

"I calls 'em the way I sees 'em." -Red Skelton (and OldWiseGuy)

You need a new optometrist.

 

[Juvenal]

I see a number of Christian and non-believers subscribe to the notion of evolution. It is my opinion that evolution is impossible, and I believe my opinion is supported by (the Bible and) DNA.

Interesting.

I believe the bible tells us a great deal about the worldview of its authors at the time it was put together. I don't believe it says anything about what we've since learned about the origins of our species. And more particularly, I don't believe the original authors would have wanted people living thousands of years in their future to be constrained by the limits of their understanding of the natural world.

It's not just a number of Christians who accept that we evolved. It's most of them. The majority. And more than that, it's unreasonable to expect them to accommodate your beliefs when they so clearly stand in the way of evangelization. Those who preach the denial of evolution create an insuperable hurdle for those of us who, like them, have become convinced by evidence that could never be explained by the creation stories of Genesis.

Insisting on untruths about things we can see makes it impossible for us to believe you when you speak of things that cannot be seen.

Most of your fellow Christians understand this. A majority.

I have a question for those who actually think evolution is real: can you please explain to me, using Darwinian logic, how and why the plethora of tasty and nutritious plants, vegetables and fruits evolved?

Because, if they weren't tasty, we wouldn't eat them, and then, we'd die.