The Evangelical Problem

[Sharon Hayes]

God did not give us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Donald Trump’s evangelical base does not appear to know this.

“Go out into the world and preach the gospel to all creation.”

How much easier can it get when people are coming here to escape oppression. Yes, better monitoring is needed at our borders, because we must protect our land. But if we’re not going to them, God is bringing them to us because we know about Him, and they need to know about His son, Jesus, and the importance of what he did on the cross to bring us into the body of Christ.

Yes, we live in our beautiful communities and enjoy the blessings of prosperity, but what do you think is more important to God? Our isolation from those we perceive as less than us, or the work He has commissioned us to do?

“He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire.”

Once saved does not mean always saved. “He who endures to the end shall be saved.” Sadly, there will be many who will get to the end only to find themselves in the chaff section.

Faith, obedience, love. God’s people are not white people or black people or latin people or asian people. God’s people are spiritual. Flesh cannot please God.

Let us all get back to the Father’s business.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The Father's business and immigration was supposed to be for bringing Christians here, to safety in Zion, from the lands in which they were on danger.

We stopped that quite a long time ago - if we ever did it properly to begin with, now all we do is bring in our enemies who hate us, so that we may be destroyed.

My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. We are here, at destroyed.

The only thing Republicans are doing is trying to keep the whole boat from going under at this point.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God did not give us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Donald Trump’s evangelical base does not appear to know this.

“Go out into the world and preach the gospel to all creation.”

How much easier can it get when people are coming here to escape oppression. Yes, better monitoring is needed at our borders, because we must protect our land. But if we’re not going to them, God is bringing them to us because we know about Him, and they need to know about His son, Jesus, and the importance of what he did on the cross to bring us into the body of Christ.

Yes, we live in our beautiful communities and enjoy the blessings of prosperity, but what do you think is more important to God? Our isolation from those we perceive as less than us, or the work He has commissioned us to do?

“He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire.”

Once saved does not mean always saved. “He who endures to the end shall be saved.” Sadly, there will be many who will get to the end only to find themselves in the chaff section.

Faith, obedience, love. God’s people are not white people or black people or latin people or asian people. God’s people are spiritual. Flesh cannot please God.

Let us all get back to the Father’s business.

The people coming here from Mexico and South America are coming from countries where Christianity is the predominant religion. They’re not coming here because of religious oppression they’re coming here for prosperity and they’re being allowed to enter if they pass the required screening process. I don’t see what the problem is.

 

[Sharon Hayes]

The people coming here from Mexico and South America are coming from countries where Christianity is the predominant religion. They’re not coming here because of religious oppression they’re coming here for prosperity and they’re being allowed to enter if they pass the required screening process. I don’t see what the problem is.

I said nothing about religious oppression.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

It is not a Christian principle that nations must serve all peoples everywhere and save them from oppression. This is a liberal Neoconservative/Liberal doctrines which ultimately deprives any single community from being able to protect itself from elements which would change or corrupt it. Nations have the right to close their borders, they don't have to take everyone in.

Also, I find it immensely hypocritical to use a Christian justification for opening borders but then you turn around against Christians who would seek a more Christian influence on society and say that isn't allowed. If you are going to use Christianity to justify one political policy of your nation (open borders), then you can't turn around and deny Christian principles on things like LGBT, abortion or any of your sacred liberal principles.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I said nothing about religious oppression.

I apologize, I must’ve misunderstood you. I thought that you were saying that their oppression was keeping them from coming to Christ.

How much easier can it get when people are coming here to escape oppression. Yes, better monitoring is needed at our borders, because we must protect our land. But if we’re not going to them, God is bringing them to us because we know about Him, and they need to know about His son, Jesus, and the importance of what he did on the cross to bring us into the body of Christ.

 

[Lukaris]

God did not give us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Donald Trump’s evangelical base does not appear to know this.

“Go out into the world and preach the gospel to all creation.”

How much easier can it get when people are coming here to escape oppression. Yes, better monitoring is needed at our borders, because we must protect our land. But if we’re not going to them, God is bringing them to us because we know about Him, and they need to know about His son, Jesus, and the importance of what he did on the cross to bring us into the body of Christ.

Yes, we live in our beautiful communities and enjoy the blessings of prosperity, but what do you think is more important to God? Our isolation from those we perceive as less than us, or the work He has commissioned us to do?

“He is ready to separate the chaff from the wheat with his winnowing fork. Then he will clean up the threshing area, gathering the wheat into his barn but burning the chaff with never-ending fire.”

Once saved does not mean always saved. “He who endures to the end shall be saved.” Sadly, there will be many who will get to the end only to find themselves in the chaff section.

Faith, obedience, love. God’s people are not white people or black people or latin people or asian people. God’s people are spiritual. Flesh cannot please God.

Let us all get back to the Father’s business.

These are already accounted for with legal immigration and asylum policies.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It seems like some people on both sides are exaggerating the situation. I see some who are implying that the boarders are closed and I see others who are implying that the boarders are open. Neither of these are true. The boarders are exactly the same as they have always been. Nothing has changed. Anyone who wants to enter must undergo a background check and screening process to enter. That means that everyone is not automatically allowed to enter and at the same time everyone is not being turned away. This is a very typical theme I see constantly between both the left and the right. There are many in both groups who are incapable of speaking the truth and their only concern is to exaggerate and spread lies about the opposing side. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Some people in this thread need to decide whether their political agenda is more important than obeying the word of God.

 

[Sharon Hayes]

It is not a Christian principle that nations must serve all peoples everywhere and save them from oppression. This is a liberal Neoconservative/Liberal doctrines which ultimately deprives any single community from being able to protect itself from elements which would change or corrupt it. Nations have the right to close their borders, they don't have to take everyone in.

Also, I find it immensely hypocritical to use a Christian justification for opening borders but then you turn around against Christians who would seek a more Christian influence on society and say that isn't allowed. If you are going to use Christianity to justify one political policy of your nation (open borders), then you can't turn around and deny Christian principles on things like LGBT, abortion or any of your sacred liberal principles.

Try very hard to get Trump out of your head. No political leader has ever said or want open borders. Borders are not what my post was about, it's about evangelizing the world like the Lord told us to do, and to look at those who do make it into our country as an opportunity for them to receive seed growth to know the Lord.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Try very hard to get Trump out of your head. No political leader has ever said or want open borders. Borders are not what my post was about, it's about evangelizing the world like the Lord told us to do, and to look at those who do make it into our country as an opportunity for them to receive seed growth to know the Lord.

You said to me that this is not about religious oppression. Most of the people coming over here are already Christians. As far as evangelism goes they’re probably a lot more likely to receive Christian evangelism in Mexico, Central America, and South America than to receive it here in America. America is full of ungodliness.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Try very hard to get Trump out of your head. No political leader has ever said or want open borders. Borders are not what my post was about, it's about evangelizing the world like the Lord told us to do, and to look at those who do make it into our country as an opportunity for them to receive seed growth to know the Lord.

I don't have Trump in mind with my post. You're arguing that no one is arguing for open borders, yet at the same time you are arguing for receiving immigrants on the basis that they might convert to Christianity and are a population who can be reached by God.

Historically Christians never successfully evangelized by deliberately allowing foreign populations in and not challenging their way of life or not expecting them to conform to Christian standards.

 

[Sharon Hayes]

The Father's business and immigration was supposed to be for bringing Christians here, to safety in Zion, from the lands in which they were on danger.

We stopped that quite a long time ago - if we ever did it properly to begin with, now all we do is bring in our enemies who hate us, so that we may be destroyed.

My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. We are here, at destroyed.

The only thing Republicans are doing is trying to keep the whole boat from going under at this point.

Biden worked with Congress to build a bipartisan bill that would also add 100's of additional agents at borders (it's online if you care vet it). Not only did Trump order Speaker Johnson not to put the bill to a vote, Senator James Lankford (a republican who helped structure the bill) was threatened by a well-known commentator that he would destroy (also available for vetting).

Instead of protecting our borders, Trump wants it to remain an issue for him to run on, which is exactly what he's doing. So, if the boat sinks it's on Trump and his MAGA leadership.

 

[Sharon Hayes]

You said to me that this is not about religious oppression. Most of the people coming over here are already Christians. As far as evangelism goes they’re probably a lot more likely to receive Christian evangelism in Mexico, Central America, and South America than to receive it here in America. America is full of ungodliness.

Worse, America is full of unfaithful, fearful and unforgiving Christians that are slipping into chaff category. Everything Trump touches dies, be it his businesses that have consistently gone bankrupt to evangelicals who act like he's the third coming. Repent and come back to your first love.

 

[Lukaris]

There are 2 sides to this story.

The collapse of bipartisan immigration reform: A guide for the perplexed | Brookings

Brookings Senior Fellow William Galston explains why Republicans failed to support the bipartisan immigration bill.

www.brookings.edu

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2

U.S. House votes down border bill favored by conservatives • Idaho Capital Sun

The U.S. House didn't pass a border security bill that GOP leadership intended as an incentive for conservatives to support a foreign aid package.

idahocapitalsun.com

 

[Sharon Hayes]

It is not a Christian principle that nations must serve all peoples everywhere and save them from oppression. This is a liberal Neoconservative/Liberal doctrines which ultimately deprives any single community from being able to protect itself from elements which would change or corrupt it. Nations have the right to close their borders, they don't have to take everyone in.

Also, I find it immensely hypocritical to use a Christian justification for opening borders but then you turn around against Christians who would seek a more Christian influence on society and say that isn't allowed. If you are going to use Christianity to justify one political policy of your nation (open borders), then you can't turn around and deny Christian principles on things like LGBT, abortion or any of your sacred liberal principles.

Who are you to call them "elements" which would change or corrupt our communities? They're human beings like you, and many come with desires and dreams like the immigrants of old who came here. Also, no one wants open borders and, yes, the influx of illegals must be better managed. However, we shouldn't look down on people.

 

[Sharon Hayes]

These are already accounted for with legal immigration and asylum policies.

So you're saying they should shelter in place until they can obtain legal immigration or asylum status? How long does that take and how much does it cost? Is that realistic to you?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Worse, America is full of unfaithful, fearful and unforgiving Christians that are slipping into chaff category. Everything Trump touches dies, be it his businesses that have consistently gone bankrupt to evangelicals who act like he's the third coming. Repent and come back to your first love.

As opposed to supporting LGBTQ ideals and the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent babies? Sometimes the only choice you have is choosing the lesser evil.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Who are you to call them "elements" which would change or corrupt our communities? They're human beings like you, and many come with desires and dreams like the immigrants of old who came here. Also, no one wants open borders and, yes, the influx of illegals must be better managed. However, we shouldn't look down on people.

Are human beings not corrupt? Do we not have to strictly regulate our lives lest we fall into decadence? Manage our associations and guard ourselves against temptation? Do you think it works any differently? Suppose an Islamic society adopted the same policies western countries do when it comes to immigration and they for some reason allow a lot of Christians into their country. Will that country not be changed by the presence of Christians who might advocate for Christian social ethics, like monogamy for instance. If you tolerate a behavior you allow for it's growth. I'm not denying people being people or having dreams but this is just the reality.

 

[Lukaris]

So you're saying they should shelter in place until they can obtain legal immigration or asylum status? How long does that take and how much does it cost? Is that realistic to you?

I am saying that US immigration law already takes into account matters of migration and asylum in a humane manner. If these laws would be properly administered, there would be less people as illegal immigrants. It might then be possible to balance the needs of the migrant and the American nation in a humane and rational manner.

For ex. doing away with the irrational “diversity lottery” which rewards over 50,000 visas annually and attend to a more rational application for asylum would be more humane and sensible.

Diversity Immigrant Visa - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[iarwain]

Biden worked with Congress to build a bipartisan bill that would also add 100's of additional agents at borders (it's online if you care vet it).

That bill was unacceptable to conservatives because it locked in a minimum number of illegals coming into the country, and then gave Biden the option of whether to tighten down at that point or not - and considering Biden has been working to keep the border open during his entire presidency (well, until the election year), he was not to be trusted on that.

Democrats want the border open because they think if they can flood the country with illegals, those people will become future Democratic voters (and data bears them out). Many would like to give them the vote before they even get citizenship, and most of the rest want to fast track amnesty for them so they can vote all the more quickly. Filling Democratic states like NY and Illinois with illegal immigrants counts toward the census, which could add more Democratic representatives to those states by population. And what they would like most would be to turn Texas (especially) and other red states blue. Finally, elites want the cheap labor.