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the euthanasia holocaust...

freealaska

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LouTheWicked said:
So a person on their death bed, immoblized unable to do anything and in agony should be kept alive because it's murder to your god if we relieve them of their suffering?

I think that's a pretty cruel god you've got yourself involved with.

More to the point, by keeping a terminally ill patient alive with life-support you are interfering with "God's will" are you not? Afterall God intended them to die at the natural conclusion of their affliction. And so it is with all diseases and injury; God never intended for one person's heart to be transplanted into another right? Otherwise you'd think he would have put that in the bible somewhere...

Next time when you get a cut on your finger I suggest you let it fester instead of cleaning and bandaging it. If God wills you to live then you won't get a staff infection and die.

;)
 
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Tangnefedd

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I am not sure that euthanasia should be legalised as it would inevitably result in the termination of the old and inconvenient. If it could be guaranteed that only those that requested euthanasia would be terminated then I wouldn't have a problem with it, but of course no such guarantees could be given. However, I think everyone has a right to teminate their own life should they be terminally ill and in unrelieved pain.

If a terminally ill relative was in pain and distress, I hope I would have the courage to end it for them if they begged me too. I would feel no guilt if I had to kill someone presented with that scenario.

My Dad died recently, he had lingered for weeks longer than was kind to him or his relatives. As I sat by his bed in the nursing home I was sorely tempted to put the pillow over his face. However, he had not requested that anyone should end his life, so naturally I didn't do the deed. In the end the family insisted that he had a morphine pump to relieve his pain, and thankfully he was gone within hours. There is no kudos in suffering and the sooner it is ended the better in my opinion.
 
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murjahel

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LouTheWicked said:
So a person on their death bed, immoblized unable to do anything and in agony should be kept alive because it's murder to your god if we relieve them of their suffering?
LouTheWicked said:

I think that's a pretty cruel god you've got yourself involved with.


I think God does not need any help if and when He chooses to take a saint home to heaven....

To call 'murder' to be 'letting someone die' is not very logical...

Letting someone die is not trying to hinder the process, and there are times that is not wrong... but to put enough morphine in their syringe to kill an elephant, is not 'letting them die' ... it is killing them.... That is murder, and not our decision to make...

All the killing of people in war, is not the same thing... The wwII was against people who thought like you and were slaughtering the Jews and Christians... and if they would not have been stopped, we would have much more than abortion and euthanasia now, we would have continued genocide....

To war and kill those who were trying to kill innocents is not the same as what you are saying...

Surely there is a time for capital punishment, self defense and war... but euthanasia of those who you think are a waste of time here is wrong...
 
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murjahel

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Electric Sceptic said:
But euthanasia of those who want to die is right.


no... to kill one who wants to die, is murder too...

if one wants to die, they can talk to God, ask Him if He will take them home, and trust Him to make the right decision....

there are times that all of us Christians would rather be in heaven than here.... but we do not step in front of a train, or ask a doctor to put us to sleep or dehydrate our body by not giving us food or water so we can die... That is wrong...

So... we Christians who would rather be in heaven than debating the likes of you... stick around till God calls us home...
 
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Silent Bob

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Look murjahel if you have evidence about the hospice people go to the police.

Euthanasia as discussed right now is assisted suicide, a person wants to die due to a terminal illness that will surely kill him/her in a painful way and instead of taking morphine for the rest of his/her days a doctor is called and the person rests at his/her home with his/her family.

Or when a living will is in place then the vegetative state is allowed to stop. It is not going anywhere, it is NOT life. I personaly would rather be stuffed and kept in the livingroom if my relatives want to see me that way. Keeping me in a bed and feeding me through a tube is degrading and no matter what scripture or God Himself says I want to die with dignity.
 
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Silent Bob

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till God calls us home...

Here is a clue: when you have cancer all over your body GOD JUST CALLED YOU HOME!!!!!!1111

How you are going to go there, either stoned to the brink on morphine and still in pain or by a lethal injection after you have said your farewells to everyone does not affect the end result that in the end you will be 6 ft under.
 
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loriersea

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Comparing the legal right to decide if one either wants one's life prolonged by artificial means, or the legal right to decide that one would rather die immediately, pain-free, rather than after a week of agonizing pain, to the death of six million Jewish people by the Nazis is sickening and immoral. Shame on you!

I have reservations about the practice of physician-assisted suicide, simply because I don't think we could adequately draw lines for when it is appropriate and when it is not. What legal basis would their be for saying that it was okay to assist the suicide of a cancer patient who only had two weeks left to live but not to assist the suicide of a severely depressed but otherwise healthy individual? I'm not sure there would be any, and that would not be a very good situation. But, I see it as entirely separate from the issue of the murder of six million plus individuals in the concentration camps, and am disgusted by the idea that they are akin to each other.
 
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loriersea

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freealaska said:
More to the point, by keeping a terminally ill patient alive with life-support you are interfering with "God's will" are you not?

Yup. If we go with the "We must not interfere with God's will" argument, then everytime we use an antibacterial hand soap we are interfering with God's will. Everytime we get a vaccine or go to the doctor or get treatment for a terminal illness we are interfering with God's will.
 
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Phylogeny

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I have told my parents time and again that I do not wish to be kept alive artificially. I am tempted to have a living will after the Shavio case, I do NOT want to be kept in a vegetative state with my family tugging away at my fate in court. My parents have also expressed their distaste over being kept alive artificially so I'm pretty sure if I had to make a decision, I'd 'pull the plug' so to speak.

Also, as a future physician, I would have no personal qualms about giving pain medication to a terminal patient even if it hastens their death if that is their wish (to relieve pain). However, the legal ramifications may force me to tell my patients 'no' on this....

My personal belief is that our purpose is not to prolong life indefinitely at all cost because if that was true, shouldn't we be up in arms over the obesity epidemic in this country?

Forget the Shavio case, overeating will kill more people than anything else, and it too is done willfully. Just surviving on a full diet will decrease your life span substantially. According to studies published in Nature (and my physio professor), the ONLY way scientists have discovered to prolong life is to subsist at a starvation level---barring diseases that may kill you, evidently, being really skinny actually drastically reduces cancer and other diseases in old age.

Does that mean we should start a campaign to put everyone on starvation diets? I mean, it would prolong life....should we ban junk food?

I don't believe so.

Life is meant to be lived, we don't just prolong it at all costs. If a sick and dying person decides they no longer want to live with pain, then how is letting them leave this world peacefully any worse than allowing people to gorge themselves on unhealthy food stuff?

What I mean is, we expect to make sacrifices on our lifespan in order to fully enjoy it---that includes eating junk food, going to buffets, not exercising, drinking alcohol, smoking etc. We know it's bad for us, but most of us do it anyway because we don't exist just to exist, we exist to live.

If a sick person decides their quality of life has gotten to the point where it is no longer worth living, I don't see how hastening their death is any worse than doing all the other things we do to our bodies in order to make our life 'livable'. We make choices everyday, sacrificing our health (so to speak) to make our quality of life better. I guess I find allowing myself an easier death as a continuation of that.

It's a strange an warped logic I know, but it's 2am. :blush:
 
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Tangnefedd

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If a sick person decides their quality of life has gotten to the point where it is no longer worth living, I don't see how hastening their death is any worse than doing all the other things we do to our bodies in order to make our life 'livable'. We make choices everyday, sacrificing our health (so to speak) to make our quality of life better. I guess I find allowing myself an easier death as a continuation of that.

It's a strange an warped logic I know, but it's 2am. :blush:




That is not warped logic that is commonsense!

Go to bed!!!!!
 
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The Seeker

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murjahel said:
no... to kill one who wants to die, is murder too...

if one wants to die, they can talk to God, ask Him if He will take them home, and trust Him to make the right decision....

there are times that all of us Christians would rather be in heaven than here.... but we do not step in front of a train, or ask a doctor to put us to sleep or dehydrate our body by not giving us food or water so we can die... That is wrong...

So... we Christians who would rather be in heaven than debating the likes of you... stick around till God calls us home...
The thing is, not everybody is a Christian. You don't get to decide what's best for other people, and you certainly don't get to force others to follow your religion. Sorry :(
 
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