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The Ethics of Cloning

BigToe

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I've heard about the ethics in terms of the good it could do for medical research, but not much beyond that. What are the ethical implications of cloning? Do different levels of cloning carry with them different issues of ethics? Are some of the claims of ethics problems in regards to cloning just jargon or are they valid? Why are some instances of cloning so widely discussed but others that have been happening for much longer not really worried about?

Looking online I've seen some of the opposition to cloning take an approach of it creating life without a father and therefore not as God intended. But what about the decline in genetic diversity and thus eventually limiting the gene pool? Isn't that what the real concern should be?
 

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I have no problem with cloning animals but cloning humans can be problematic. If we are only cloning human embryos for research purposes then I don't have a problem with that but cloning humans to raise to newborns I am not sure I could approve of.
 
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Vylo

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You have to be very careful when messing around the genes of any living being, especially humans. I know such talk might seem like a paranoia over science fiction-like consequences, but consider what selective breeding did when it unleashed the killer bee.
 
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Willtor

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I consider human cloning unethical on many levels. Even aesthetically, genetic diversity is beautiful. I know much of who you are comes from your environment, but you can imagine if that were the only thing that made us different, or if there were a few "stock brands" of humans. But I'm sure you can imagine lots of people preferring exactly the same music, eating exactly the same kinds of food, wearing exactly the same clothes, etc. That's aesthetic, though, and I wouldn't hang an argument on it.

More centrally, diversity is important to the gene pool. This is one of the problems with incest. There are negative consequences to everyone having the same genetic makeup. It's artificial selection of particular alleles on a grand scale.

But even if it weren't implemented wholesale, what would the implications be for classes in society and "ownership" of genes? Would clones be "owned," at least to some extent by the corporations that produced them? Would stronger, more "pliable" people be invented to do the jobs non-clones don't want? Bad news, in my view.

Seriously, I have this image of everyone thinking the same things, wearing the same things... all 1984-style.
 
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ChrisCountryGirl

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I've heard about the ethics in terms of the good it could do for medical research, but not much beyond that. What are the ethical implications of cloning? Do different levels of cloning carry with them different issues of ethics? Are some of the claims of ethics problems in regards to cloning just jargon or are they valid? Why are some instances of cloning so widely discussed but others that have been happening for much longer not really worried about?

Looking online I've seen some of the opposition to cloning take an approach of it creating life without a father and therefore not as God intended. But what about the decline in genetic diversity and thus eventually limiting the gene pool? Isn't that what the real concern should be?
I don't agree on the subject of cloning. I'm against it.
 
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BigToe

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What do you think about cloning?

What do I think about it?

I think the idea of slowly cutting away at genetic diversity is scary. I think there is diversity in the gene pool for a reason and to limit it could have some dangerous consequences.

If cloning never goes further than to help create organs and tissues for people in need, then I might be ok with it as it will maintain the already existing diversity. I don't think everything should be the same.
 
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laptoppop

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I think cloning, with all the clones turning out the same, raises another question - that of ensoulment. Would a clone have a soul? When do we get our souls? At conception? At birth?
 
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laptoppop

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Or would they be soulless? It would certainly help people understand the specialness of humanness if the clones were not sentient, for example, but I guess I'm not wanting to test it. If they were soulless, is it unethical to make them? What if they were soulless, but had some functioning, like a dog, for example. Would it be unethical to train them to do certain tasks?
 
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BigToe

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Or if there are clones, who is to say it won't be setting up for huge instances of mistaken identity? I know a set of identical twins that like to pull fast ones over on people. With clones around, who is to say they wouldn't try to confuse everyone? Either way, I could see it leading to mass paranoia for some cultures.
 
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Macrina

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I think there needs to be a distinction between cloning on a large scale (an entire person or animal) or a small scale (cells or organs). If one is okay and the other isn't, where do you draw the line? What is okay to duplicate and what is not?
 
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laptoppop

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Is cloning animals ok, but humans not?

One problem that I have with cloning cells is that one needs to be careful of the source. If you are just taking a sample from an adult, for example, and multiplying the cells, that's not cloning -- but has been the one type of stem cells that has yielded positive therapuetic results. Cloning human cells- where you end up destroying the (potential) people to harvest them - that's over the line.
 
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mpshiel

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These sorts of arguements tend to give me headaches because for the most part, people attach meanings to a word but then don't understand the actual science - which you can see in recent hollywood films like The Island - in which "perfect clones" are not considered fully human, questioning if they even have a soul. Or the film Areon Flux, that clones are inheriting the dreams and memories of thier "previous people"

Okay - there is a process in nature in which two or more organisms can occur with the identical DNA called twinning - when the egg itself seperates into two.

Currently cloning is done by taking the nucleus from one egg from one animal and replacing the nucleus from an egg from the second animal - and putting it in the uterus - thus when it is born from the second animal - it is actually a genetic copy of the first animal.

However, simply because of the influence of the egg from the second animal, it is likely that the clone will be LESS exact than a naturally born twin. And yet no one debates whether twins have one soul shared in two bodies or just one of them gets the soul and the other has no soul.

It is ironic that many of these same arguements were made several decades ago for what is now one of the most common form of treatments for lesbian impregnation or infertility problems: invitro fertilization which used to be called under the spooky name of "test tube babies"

The most common procedure is where several eggs are fertilized and cells have begun to split and become embryos (thus they are viable) - these are "grown" outside the body and then frozen for later use while one or more is transplanted into the body (which over time has found to be more effective with fertility hormones - which also causes a lot of twinning).

It used to be argued that because these embryos were "grown by science" (putting sperm in eggs, and feeding them nutrients until viable) that the children born from these were somehow not "real" children because they had not gone through the typical process and many religious magazines wrote of the threat of "test tube children" who would be souless because the soul starts at the holy connection of sperm and egg or that they would be amoral or cold and psychotic because they were grown outside the body (the fact that there wasn't any organs, much less a brain just an embryo seemed to escape these people). Now, 35 years on, we know that is rubbish.

If human cloning takes place it will likely not be with the procedures in place today which are far to difficult and costly - but that's how all things start, even IVF - (yet IVF humans seem to have the same human rights are us - they aren't randomly harvested for organs) If you are really worried about whether cloned humans will have souls, I suggest you wait a decade or so when you will be able to ask them yourself.

The technology does not have morals; and if you are really concerned about harvesting of organs, it is far, far, cheaper to simply harvest orphans and other "forgotten" people in lands of difficulty - already Guatamala has a GNP which is reliant on selling the eggs, babies, and other fertility aspects of its citizens - no advanced science there - just a will and desire to make money - that, in the end, will be what makes any particular technology or simply desire one which is satisfied with moral ends or not - and sadly, as we can see anywhere in the world, the capacity to treat current human beings and artifacts to be carved up for profit is already amoung us.
 
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