The End of Days

[daq]

The following translations are about as close to literal as one can get. The only problem I have is that the masculine plural form for days, yamim, could be a proper noun: in other words emphatic, which could be the reason why the definite article is not attached, (Hebrew proper nouns are already emphatic and do not allow the definite article).

Genesis 4:3 YLT
3 And it cometh to pass at the end of days [yamim] that Cain bringeth from the fruit of the ground a present to Jehovah;

Genesis 4:3 SLT
3 And it shall be at the end of days, [yamim] and Cain shall bring in from the fruit of the earth an offering to Jehovah.

Genesis 4:3 LSV
3 And it comes to pass at the end of days [yamim] that Cain brings from the fruit of the ground a present to YHWH;

The reason I say, and believe, that Yamim is a proper noun here is because of the opening creation account, wherein the gathering of the waters are also called Yamim, surely a proper noun because that is the name Elohim gave them, (Gen 1:10 "Seas" = Yamim), and the plural of yam, (sea), which is this word yamim, is the same as the masculine plural form for days, yamim.

Why is the above important to this discussion? That is because in six yamim YHWH made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and He rested the seventh yom: wherefore YHWH blessed the yom of the Shabbat, and hallowed it.

Thus the six yamim are the Yamim of creation and the seventh yom is the Shabbat.

In Exodus 20:8-11 KJV
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days [yamim] shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days [yamim] the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Genesis 4:3
3 And it comes to pass at the end of [the] Yamim that Cain brings from the fruit of the ground an offering unto YHWH:

So it is not "the end of days", (like as if the end of the world), but the end of the Yamim, and that would be a proper noun because the six Yamim of creation are special, being the prototype for the ages and most everything else that would eventually follow in the whole of scripture. And what therefore is Gen 4:3 telling us? What is the Logos reasoning? What is the Sod reasoning? Cain and Abel are bringing their offerings either right before the Shabbat or in the Shabbat, and thus, they are observing the Shabbat of creation at the end of the six yamim.

Cain and Abel are observing the Shabbat of creation in this passage.
And the Shabbat will be observed until the end of days.

 

[Clare73]

The following translations are about as close to literal as one can get. The only problem I have is that the masculine plural form for days, yamim, could be a proper noun: in other words emphatic, which could be the reason why the definite article is not attached, (Hebrew proper nouns are already emphatic and do not allow the definite article).

Genesis 4:3 YLT
3 And it cometh to pass at the end of days [yamim] that Cain bringeth from the fruit of the ground a present to Jehovah;

Genesis 4:3 SLT
3 And it shall be at the end of days, [yamim] and Cain shall bring in from the fruit of the earth an offering to Jehovah.

Genesis 4:3 LSV
3 And it comes to pass at the end of days [yamim] that Cain brings from the fruit of the ground a present to YHWH;

The reason I say, and believe, that Yamim is a proper noun here is because of the opening creation account, wherein the gathering of the waters are also called Yamim, surely a proper noun because that is the name Elohim gave them, (Gen 1:10 "Seas" = Yamim), and the plural of yam, (sea), which is this word yamim, is the same as the masculine plural form for days, yamim.

Why is the above important to this discussion? That is because in six yamim YHWH made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and He rested the seventh yom: wherefore YHWH blessed the yom of the Shabbat, and hallowed it.

Thus the six yamim are the Yamim of creation and the seventh yom is the Shabbat.

In Exodus 20:8-11 KJV
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days [yamim] shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days [yamim] the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Genesis 4:3
3 And it comes to pass at the end of [the] Yamim that Cain brings from the fruit of the ground an offering unto YHWH:

So it is not "the end of days", (like as if the end of the world), but the end of the Yamim, and that would be a proper noun because the six Yamim of creation are special, being the prototype for the ages and most everything else that would eventually follow in the whole of scripture. And what therefore is Gen 4:3 telling us? What is the Logos reasoning? What is the Sod reasoning? Cain and Abel are bringing their offerings either right before the Shabbat or in the Shabbat, and thus, they are observing the Shabbat of creation at the end of the six yamim.

Cain and Abel are observing the Shabbat of creation in this passage.

And the Shabbat will be observed until the end of days.

Jesus is our Sabbath in the NT, in whom we rest from our own works to save and in his work which saves completely, and will be so until the end of time.

 

[daq]

Jesus is our Sabbath in the NT, in whom we rest from our own works to save and in his work which saves completely, and will be so until the end of time.

This man heard the voice of the Son of Elohim and was made whole:

John 5:1-27 KJV
1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?
13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

"My Father is working until just now", (εως αρτι), so they were off in their timing for the daily Shabbat hour, and they were likely off by about the same half hour mentioned in Rev 8:1, for the evening portion of the hour comes first, (opening creation account), then the ascending prayer offerings in the morning half of the hour. Howbeit this is why he then says in verse twenty-five, "The hour comes, and now is", for it was the Shabbat hour of that day, just as the same phrase in the previous chapter pinpoints the midday hour of prayer.

So now I ask, do you see anything about the healed man doing works for salvation in the above passage? The man just wanted to be healed: is that what you mean by salvation or "works to save"? How did he stop doing "works to save"? Or do you see the man bowing down and proclaiming the Master to be his Shabbat? "You are now my Shabbat! You are now my Shabbat!"

??? ...........I don't think so.

However, just so you know, this thread is not about salvation by works.

 

[daq]

Jesus is our Sabbath in the NT, in whom we rest from our own works to save and in his work which saves completely, and will be so until the end of time.

By the way, the text does not say we should "rest from our own works to save", rather, it simply says that we will rest from our own works, (once we have labored to enter into that rest and have entered therein).

Hebrews 4:1-3 KJV
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

The works were finished from the foundation of the world: that can only be a reference to Gen 2:1-3 which surely includes the Shabbat of creation.

Hebrews 4:4 KJV
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Surely speaking of the Shabbat of creation.

Hebrews 4:5-7 KJV
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Verse seven above, in the source text, (Psalm 95:7-11), speaks of the provocation and temptation in the wilderness, Meribah and Massah.

Hebrews 4:8-11
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So we are to labor to enter into that rest of which he speaks: and when we have entered therein we will have ceased from our own works. This is not saying we have already entered into that rest when we come to believe but that we are to labor toward entering therein.

Moreover faith/belief here is therefore not quite the same as the way in which you apparently view those words: for the whole discourse is a warning about the lack of faith/belief being the cause for not entering into that rest of which he speaks. Therefore the faith/belief of which he speaks is not a one time initial event upon belief but is rather an ongoing labor. For those whose carcasses fell in the wilderness did not get cursed immediately upon the first rebellion, no, the rebellion was ten times, Num 14:22, ten being the number of fullness or completion.

Moreover have you noticed that verse two says the Gospel was preached unto them just the same as unto us? Them being those who disbelieved in the wilderness and their carcasses fell in the wilderness? It doesn't appear to me that this passage is speaking much at all about what you have used it for.

 

[Clare73]

This man heard the voice of the Son of Elohim and was made whole:

John 5:1-27 KJV
1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.

8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?
13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

The spiritually dead now hear the voice of the Son of God (Jesus of Nazareth) because of the spiritual new birth by the Holy Spirit whereby they are raised from spiritual death into eternal life (Jn 3:3-8).

Jn 5:1-27 not about the timing of the Sabbath. It's about the Jews' objection to Jesus "working" (healing) and to the lame man carrying his bed on the Sabbath.

"My Father is working until just now", (εως αρτι), so they were off in their timing for the daily Shabbat hour, and they were likely off by about the same half hour mentioned in Rev 8:1, for the evening portion of the hour comes first, (opening creation account), then the ascending prayer offerings in the morning half of the hour. Howbeit this is why he then says in verse twenty-five, "The hour comes, and now is", for it was the Shabbat hour of that day, just as the same phrase in the previous chapter pinpoints the midday hour of prayer.

So now I ask, do you see anything about the healed man doing works for salvation in the above passage? The man just wanted to be healed: is that what you mean by salvation or "works to save"?

No, it is not.

I am drawing parallels between the OT work-free Sabbath (Saturday) where they rested from their work,
and the NT work-free Sabbath (Jesus Christ) where we rest (in him) from our work (to save ourselves, which is only by faith in him).

The OT Sabbath rest on Saturday from their work is a pre-figure, type, pattern of
the NT Sabbath rest in Christ, from our work (to save ourselves, and a rest in our NT Sabbath, Jesus Christ's, work which saved us).

By "works for salvation" I mean the Jews' works of the law by which they thought they could be made righteous.
We are not saved from God's condemnation on our sin at the judgment by "good works," but only by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9).

How did he stop doing "works to save"? Or do you see the man bowing down and proclaiming the Master to be his Shabbat? "You are now my Shabbat! You are now my Shabbat!"
??? ...........I don't think so.

It was a pattern, parallel between the lame man and the NT redeemed.

However, just so you know, this thread is not about salvation by works.

Nor is my post. . .

My post is about the Sabbath of the OP, which OT Sabbath is a rest from work (Lev 23:3, Dt 5:14),
and it being fulfilled in the NT Sabbath, Jesus Christ, in whom we rest from our work (to save) and in his work (atonement, which saves) completely.

 

[Clare73]

By the way, the text does not say we should "rest from our own works to save", rather, it simply says that we will rest from our own works, (once we have labored to enter into that rest and have entered therein).

I was drawing a parallel between resting--in the OT Sabbath and in the NT Sabbath, Jesus Christ,
where we rest from work (to save ourselves) as they rested from work in the OT.
Or as one would draw a parallel between the animal sacrifices for the covering of sin and Christ's sacrifice for the remission of sin.

Hebrews 4:1-3 KJV
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
The works were finished from the foundation of the world: that can only be a reference to Gen 2:1-3 which surely includes the Shabbat of creation.
Hebrews 4:4 KJV
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Surely speaking of the Shabbat of creation.
Hebrews 4:5-7 KJV
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Verse seven above, in the source text, (Psalm 95:7-11), speaks of the provocation and temptation in the wilderness, Meribah and Massah.
Hebrews 4:8-11
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So we are to labor to enter into that rest of which he speaks:

In the context of Hebrews, where these new Hebrew Christians were considering a return to Judaism, the writer urges them in 3:7-4:11 not to apostasize and fail to enter salvation rest in Jesus Christ, as their ancestors had failed to enter Canaan rest (Josh 1:13, Ex 33:14, Dt 12:9-10, 25:19) in Nu 14, and for which they were stripped of their Canaan rest and punished with death in the wilderness.

The issue in Hebrews is apostasy, it is not the "work/labor" it takes to enter salvation rest, but the work/labor it takes to turn from apostasy.

and when we have entered therein we will have ceased from our own works. This is not saying we have already entered into that rest when we come to believe but that we are to labor toward entering therein.
Moreover faith/belief here is therefore not quite the same as the way in which you apparently view those words: for the whole discourse is a warning about the lack of faith/belief being the cause for not entering into that rest of which he speaks. Therefore the faith/belief of which he speaks is not a one time initial event upon belief but is rather an ongoing labor. For those whose carcasses fell in the wilderness did not get cursed immediately upon the first rebellion, no, the rebellion was ten times, Num 14:22, ten being the number of fullness or completion.

Moreover have you noticed that verse two says the Gospel was preached unto them just the same as unto us? Them being those who disbelieved in the wilderness and their carcasses fell in the wilderness? It doesn't appear to me that this passage is speaking much at all about what you have used it for.

The passage is dealing precisely with what I am using it for; i.e., failure to enter God's rest:
his Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ (which is rest from working to save ourselves) and his Canaan rest under Moses.

 

[crixus]

The sooner the better. Come Lord Jesus, come.

 

[daq]

The sooner the better. Come Lord Jesus, come.

According to 2 Peter 3:11-12 we can be hastening the day, that is, by holy behavior and godliness, which is to do the will of the Father by way of the teachings and Testimony of His Son. However, in the ancient way, the people are the land, and many such things are taught in parables, for example, the soil of the heart: in the parable of the sower the soil of the heart is adamah, and adamah is therefore inward, just as the first man Adam was taken from the adamah and formed of dust from the adamah.

So then, the adamah or soil is inward, and therefore the eretz or land is outward and surface. The inward adamah of the heart is the holy adamah of Yhudah, as it is written in Zec 2:12-13, so the house of Yhudah, (with Levi), is the inward man of the soil of the heart, (see also Rom 2:28-29). But the house of Yisrael, the ten northern tribes, were cast out and dispersed among the nations and heathen, and that is the eretz or outer bounds, corresponding to the flesh, much like the temple commons or profane outer area roundabout the outer wall.

Therefore the Master has made one new man out of both: the house of Yhudah is the heart, the holy adamah-soil and inheritance of the Most High, (Zec 2:12-13), while the flesh is the outer bounds wherein the house of Yisrael are scattered among the nations, the heathen, and even wild beasts, (for sin dwells in the flesh, Romans 7).

How then might we be hastening the day? Go not in the way of the heathen: but go to the lost sheep of the house of Yisrael, and preach the good news in every city, and town, and unwalled village, in every corner of your land, and surely you shall not have gone over all the cities of Yisrael before the Son of Man comes.

And when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory, (for the kingdom of Elohim is within you, Luke 17:20-21), and he will separate the sheep from the goats. And in like manner he shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom the tares from the wheat when both are grown up, and all things that offend, and them which do iniquity, when the transgressors and their transgressions have come to the full, and they shall cast them into a furnace of fire, (there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth). Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

 

[daq]

I was drawing a parallel between resting--in the OT Sabbath and in the NT Sabbath, Jesus Christ,
where we rest from work (to save ourselves) as they rested from work in the OT.

But again that text does not say what you say about resting from work to save ourselves: that's your interpretation based on your bias. Moreover the work concerning "as they rested from work in the OT" was not a resting from works to save themselves either, and the scripture bears this out in Isaiah 58:13-14.

Isaiah 58:13-14 KJV
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

In the context of Hebrews, where these new Hebrew Christians were considering a return to Judaism,

Please provide scripture evidence for this assertion.

the writer urges them in 3:7-4:11 not to apostasize and fail to enter salvation rest in Jesus Christ, as their ancestors had failed to enter Canaan rest (Josh 1:13, Ex 33:14, Dt 12:9-10, 25:19) in Nu 14, and for which they were stripped of their Canaan rest and punished with death in the wilderness.

I say you have misunderstood both the point and the text: this rest is not about a supposed "Canaan rest" because that isn't what the opening creation account is speaking about. Do you suppose that the literal physical land of Canaan must have been at one time literally flowing with milk and honey? That isn't the meaning of the promised land anymore than you are going to be ruling and reigning in a literal-physical thousand year global empire.

The issue in Hebrews is apostasy, it is not the "work/labor" it takes to enter salvation rest, but the work/labor it takes to turn from apostasy.

The passage is dealing precisely with what I am using it for; i.e., failure to enter God's rest:
his Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ (which is rest from working to save ourselves) and his Canaan rest under Moses.

One of the unmentioned reasons I included the fact in the OP that both seas and days are the same word in masculine plural, Yamim, is because the word mikweh is found in Gen 1:10.

Genesis 1:10 KJV
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together [miqweh] of the waters called he Seas: [Yamim] and God saw that it was good.

A mikweh, (or mikveh), is an immersion pool, and the traditional mikweh has seven steps, and likewise Namaan the Syrian is also told to go down to the Yordan and wash seven times, that is, seven dips or plunges, (2 Kngs 5:14).

Thus for the attentive and observant reader there is a secret here, in the opening creation account, something hidden from the foundation of the world, (Mat 13:35 quoting from Psa 78:2), in that the seven days of creation, including the Shabbat, are an immersion: for the yamim can be either days or seas.

Surely you have heard that immersion into Meshiah is an immersion into his death? (according to Paul in Rom 6:3). So there is so much more to the creation narrative than people generally realize, and it may in fact contain the primitive prophetic form of immersion into Meshiah from the very beginning, and is probably even the very place where the teaching of immersion came from to begin with. Forget the natural method of understanding the opening creation account: you will never have dominion over lions, bears, leopards, and wild beasts in the natural world. The very fact that you do not view the Torah, Prophets, and Writings through the interpretations and Testimony of the Meshiah reveals that your immersion into Meshiah is not yet complete.

 

[Clare73]

But again that text does not say what you say about resting from work to save ourselves: that's your interpretation based on your bias.

The text (Heb 3:7-4:11) is about urging these new Hebrew Christians not to fail to enter God's NT salvation rest now as their ancestors failed to enter God's Canaan rest (Josh 1:13, Ex 33:14, Dt 12:9-10, 25:19, Jude 5) in Nu 14 (Heb 3:16-19).

Moreover the work concerning "as they rested from work in the OT" was not a resting from works to save themselves either, and the scripture bears this out in Isaiah 58:13-14.

Agreed. . .the work from which they rested in the OT was not from saving themselves.
The work from which they rested in the OT was a pre-figure of NT work (to save ourselves) from which we rest in Jesus Christ in the NT.

Isaiah 58:13-14 KJV
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Please provide scripture evidence for this assertion.

The believers in the letter to the Hebrews are told that there can be no turning back to or continuation in the old Jewish system, which has been superseded by the unique priesthood of Christ. God's people must now look only to Christ, whose atoning death, resurrection and ascension have opened the way into the true, heavenly sanctuary of God's presence.
From the five warnings to resist temptation to turn away (3:12):
1) Heb 2:1-4 - to pay attention,
2) Heb 4:1-3 - not to fail to believe,
3) Heb 5:11-6:12 -of the consequences of lapsing back (unbelief) into Judaism (falling away,)
4) Heb 10:19-39 - to not lapse back but believe in and obey your new high priest,
5) Heb 12:14-28 - to not lapse back into Judaism,
it is surmised ("educated guess") that these new Hebrew Christians were considering a return to Judaism (i.e., not entering into salvation rest in Jesus Christ), for they are being told they must persevere in the spiritual contest to which they have committed themselves. Otherwise, they may meet with judgment as did the rebellious generation of Israelites (Nu 14) in the desert (Heb 3:15-19, 4:9-11).

I say you have misunderstood both the point and the text: this rest is not about a supposed
"Canaan rest" because that isn't what the opening creation account is speaking about.

Correct. . .

The "opening creation account" presents Christ (1:1-4) as God's full and final revelation, far surpassing the limited preliminary revelation of the OT.
Hebrews is about the absolute supremacy and sufficiency of Jesus Christ as revealer and mediator of God's grace.
The prophecies and promises of the OT are fulfilled in the "new covenant" (or "new testament"), of which Christ is the Mediator.
From the OT itself, Christ is shown to be superior to the ancient prophets, to angels, to Moses (the mediator of the former covenant) and to Aaron and the priestly succession descended from them.

 

[daq]

The text (Heb 3:7-4:11) is about urging these new Hebrew Christians not to fail to enter God's NT salvation rest now as their ancestors failed to enter God's Canaan rest (Josh 1:13, Ex 33:14, Dt 12:9-10, 25:19, Jude 5) in Nu 14 (Heb 3:16-19).

Agreed. . .the work from which they rested in the OT was not from saving themselves.
The work from which they rested in the OT was a pre-figure of NT work (to save ourselves) from which we rest in Jesus Christ in the NT.

The believers in the letter to the Hebrews are told that there can be no turning back to or continuation in the old Jewish system, which has been superseded by the unique priesthood of Christ. God's people must now look only to Christ, whose atoning death, resurrection and ascension have opened the way into the true, heavenly sanctuary of God's presence.
From the five warnings to resist temptation to turn away (3:12):
1) Heb 2:1-4 - to pay attention,
2) Heb 4:1-3 - not to fail to believe,
3) Heb 5:11-6:12 -of the consequences of lapsing back (unbelief) into Judaism (falling away,)
4) Heb 10:19-39 - to not lapse back but believe in and obey your new high priest,
5) Heb 12:14-28 - to not lapse back into Judaism,
it is surmised ("educated guess") that these new Hebrew Christians were considering a return to Judaism (i.e., not entering into salvation rest in Jesus Christ), for they are being told they must persevere in the spiritual contest to which they have committed themselves. Otherwise, they may meet with judgment as did the rebellious generation of Israelites (Nu 14) in the desert (Heb 3:15-19, 4:9-11).

Correct. . .

The "opening creation account" presents Christ (1:1-4) as God's full and final revelation, far surpassing the limited preliminary revelation of the OT.
Hebrews is about the absolute supremacy and sufficiency of Jesus Christ as revealer and mediator of God's grace.
The prophecies and promises of the OT are fulfilled in the "new covenant" (or "new testament"), of which Christ is the Mediator.
From the OT itself, Christ is shown to be superior to the ancient prophets, to angels, to Moses (the mediator of the former covenant) and to Aaron and the priestly succession descended from them.

All I see are your assertions combined with scripture quotes that do not align with your assertions.
The following is surely not something typically said to new believers:

Hebrews 5:11-14 ASV
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard of interpretation, seeing ye are become dull of hearing.
12 For when by reason of the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food.
13 For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe.
14 But solid food is for fullgrown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

If the recipients of this epistle should have been teachers by this point in their walk then they were not new believers by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The OT Sabbath rest on Saturday from their work is a pre-figure, type, pattern of
the NT Sabbath rest in Christ, from our work (to save ourselves, and a rest in our NT Sabbath, Jesus Christ's, work which saved us).

NT teaches the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

No scripture says Jesus is now a commandment or a day and what a sad teaching to have Jesus reduced to the creation instead of being the Creator that He is. Jesus turning into the Sabbath i.e. day commandment does not reconcile with the plain teachings of scripture.

The Sabbath is still a day in the NT and God said it is the seventh day in His very own Words. Exo 20:10

Acts 16:3 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.

So, no the Sabbath didn't change into symbols or types. It is exactly how God spoke and God wrote, just like the other 9 commandment's and no one has the authority to change one dot or t to His holy commandment as no one is above God.

In NT teachings we enter into Christ's rest through faith. Those who enter ALSO cease from their works as God did from His. Hebrews 4:10

When did God cease from His works? NT tells us which is a direct quote from the Words God wrote and God spoke -and no one has the authority to countermand.

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

This truly cannot be made any plainer!

God's government is already established in heaven. The earthy temple was patterned after God's heavenly Temple where lies the Ten Commandments Rev 11:19 under His mercy seat as that is what we will be judged by. James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 God's version, not what was edited by man. God's heavenly Kingdom does not conform to man, we conform to Him and in His Heavenly Kingdom there is no rebellion to His commandments, just peace. Isa 48:18 We should always trust and obey God the way He commands, not the way we want.

 

[trophy33]

This truly cannot be made any plainer!

Do you realize, though, that none of the verses you use support the SDA teaching - that the Sabbath is given after Christ to Christians to keep as a literal day of rest.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Do you realize, though, that none of the verses you use support the SDA teaching - that the Sabbath is given after Christ to Christians to keep as a literal day of rest.

Have no idea what you're talking about.

The Sabbath was given to man in the Garden Mark 2:27 Gen 1:26 Gen 2:1-3 before sin corrupted this world.

The Sabbath is more than being lazy, the Sabbath is about fostering our relationship with God by spending time with Him through His Word, through prayer, Church fellowship, through nature and helping less fortunate on the day God set aside, sanctified, blessed and made for holy use to spend time with Him. This shows we place our trust in God, the God of Creation Eze 20:20, the only I AM that can sanctify Eze 20:12

 

[trophy33]

Have no idea what you're talking about.

That no verse you use supports the SDA (yours) interpretation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That no verse you use supports the SDA (yours) interpretation.

I'm not worried about SDA interpretation I only quoted God's Word, it speaks plainly and for Itself.

Take care.

 

[trophy33]

I'm not worried about SDA interpretation I only quoted God's Word, it speaks plainly and for Itself.

Take care.

It speaks plainly in its context. And the context of those verses simply does not support your interpretation (your usage of those verses).

 

[Clare73]

All I see are your assertions combined with scripture quotes that do not align with your assertions.
The following is surely not something typically said to new believers:
Hebrews 5:11-14 ASV
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard of interpretation, seeing ye are become dull of hearing.
12 For when by reason of the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food.
13 For every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the word of righteousness; for he is a babe.
14 But solid food is for fullgrown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

If the recipients of this epistle should have been teachers by this point in their walk then they were not new believers by any stretch of the imagination.

It is something said to believers who have become sluggish and lazy (6:12).
As Hebrews, and not recent Gentile converts with no background in Scripture, and having taken the first steps toward becoming (mature) Christians, they had slipped back to where they started (6:1-3).

 

[Clare73]

NT teaches the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

The new covenant did not begin until after Jesus' death.

In the new covenant, he who loves God and neighbor as self has fulfilled the law (Ro 13:8, Mt 22:37-40).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It speaks plainly in its context. And the context of those verses simply does not support your interpretation (your usage of those verses).

And context was demonstrated but we are all free to our own opinions and Truth gets sorted out soon enough.