The Elements

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

After discussing this issue with another Lutheran last night, I am now posting the topic in hopes to hear what other people think on this topic:
In the Lord's Supper it seems apparent that Jesus used Unleavened Bread and Wine
Does the use of either Leavened Bread instead of unleavened or Grapejuice instead of wine no longer make it the elements and therefore no longer the sacrament (i.e. can one use grapejuice or leavened bread and it still remain a sacrament)?
Please do not offer preferences, for I'm sure there are people who would prefer unleavened and wine but are not "against" the use of grapejuice or leavened. Because this question regards the validity of the event. Also, please give your reasoning for whichever side you take. Thanks and peace.

 

[AngelusSax]

I believe that the valiadity of the sacrament rests with Jesus and Jesus alone. Therefore, one can use anything, and if it's His will for it to be so, it will be a Sacrament.

To me, the material used is inconsequential, as it all becomes Christ, whether it's unleavened bread, leavened bread, a Snicker's Bar, or what-have-you.

 

[IowaLutheran]

I don't think we need to precisely recreate the Last Supper by having the exact same kind of bread and wine, so the leavened/unleavened or alcoholic/nonalchoholic wine differential does not invalidate the sacrament IMHO.

I wouldn't go quite as far as Angelus and say a Snicker's Bar is ok but I agree with his general sentiment.

On the other hand, my very, very strong personal preference is that unleavened bread and alcoholic wine be used. I know you didn't want preferences, but I think we should stick to the original elements out of respect and tradition.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

I don't think we need to precisely recreate the Last Supper by having the exact same kind of bread and wine, so the leavened/unleavened or alcoholic/nonalchoholic wine differential does not invalidate the sacrament IMHO.

I wouldn't go quite as far as Angelus and say a Snicker's Bar is ok but I agree with his general sentiment.

On the other hand, my very, very strong personal preference is that unleavened bread and alcoholic wine be used. I know you didn't want preferences, but I think we should stick to the original elements out of respect and tradition.

I think I can let your opinion pass since you provided your answer to the question first, I was really trying to make sure that the question gets answered. Thanks for the feedback, hope other people leave some too!

 

[RegularGuy]

Jesus instituted the Eucharist in the context of a Jewish Passover Seder. This was the reason for the unleavened bread and the wine. Understanding the context of the Seder, in which the Jews celebrate, re-create and participate in God's rescue of the children of Israel from Egyptian bondage increases our understanding of Holy Communion. Jesus reinterpreted the elements of that meal in reference to his own saving act on the cross, and gave us the bread and wine as his body and blood.

Now, we do not need to re-create the seder every time we celebrate Communion? Unleavened bread and alcoholic wine may be preferable but not necessary.

The things that make up the Sacrament are the earthly element combined with the Word of God. Bread and wine alone are not Holy Communion. If received in faith, bread--leavened or not--and wine--alcoholic or not--with God's word are sufficient for the Sacrament.

 

[KagomeShuko]

RegularGuy gave a great answer, similar to what I would say - it's the faith, the consecration the elements with the word of God, not what is used. . .

Anything could be, but, Jesus did use bread and wine, so some type of bread and some type of fruit juice/wine. . .so to use what Jesus used or similar is probably best.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

 

[stumpjumper]

All I can say is that my Church offers unleavened bread, leavened bread, wine, and grape juice as the pre-consecrated elements...

I personally prefer to partake of the body and blood by the leavened bread and wine by the intinction method... I generally skip the grape juice 'cause it just doesn't seem right... Dunno.