The Efficaciousness of the Word verse listing.

[Clare73]

The Word of God is, Himself, God, yes.

Apostolic teaching does not present Jesus as the "Word of God."

 

[ViaCrucis]

Apostolic teaching does not present Jesus as the "Word of God."

It absolutely does.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[David Lamb]

Apostolic teaching does not present Jesus as the "Word of God."

What about the apostle John? He wrote:

“1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (Joh 1:1 NKJV)

Or was your point perhaps that the actual phrase "Word of God" is not used?

 

[Mark Quayle]

What about the apostle John? He wrote:

“1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (Joh 1:1 NKJV)

Or was your point perhaps that the actual phrase "Word of God" is not used?

Yep, the phrase. You will find that @Clare73 will [very ably] rip the heretic to pieces that denies the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yep, the phrase. You will find that @Clare73 will [very ably] rip the heretic to pieces that denies the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ!

Except the phrase is used in the New Testament. Claire was given the passage (Revelation 19:13) and dismissed it. The text of the New Testament uses the phrase "Word of God" for Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[tall73]

I'm asking about the whole NT. Do we find specifically "Word of God" referring to Jesus?

Where in the NT do we find Jesus referred to as "the word of God"?

No, I am asking where do we find Jesus specifically presented as "the Word of God" in the NT,
which is a different notion than "the Word who is God. (Jn 1:14).

Revelation 19:13

ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ

Revelation is not didactics, it is prophecy given in riddles and not clearly (Nu 12:8).

He provided what you asked for. And your response was to change what you asked for.

 

[Clare73]

It absolutely does.

-CryptoLutheran

It would help if you presented where the NT teaches such.

 

[Clare73]

What about the apostle John? He wrote:

“1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (Joh 1:1 NKJV)

Or was your point perhaps that the actual phrase "Word of God" is not used?

My point is the latter.

 

[Clare73]

Except the phrase is used in the New Testament. Claire was given the passage (Revelation 19:13) and dismissed it. The text of the New Testament uses the phrase "Word of God" for Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

Clare73 said no NT teaching.

Prophecy is given in riddles and not clearly (Nu 12:8), and is subject to more than one interpretation.

 

[Clare73]

He provided what you asked for. And your response was to change what you asked for.

Well done. . .

Which doesn't mean he answered my question.

Didn't realize it had to be stated that I don't take my doctrine from prophetic riddles, not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8).

 

[tall73]

Didn't realize it had to be stated that I don't take my doctrine from prophetic riddles, not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8).

Well when you ask:

I'm asking about the whole NT. Do we find specifically "Word of God" referring to Jesus?

The word "whole" certainly doesn't get across this distinction.

So what do you think God, through John, (who also wrote John 1) meant in Revelation?

Revelation 19:13 (NKJV)
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Clare73 said no NT teaching.

Prophecy is given in riddles and not clearly (Nu 12:8), and is subject to more than one interpretation.

That's nice.

So does the NT call Jesus the Word of God?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Apostolic teaching does not present Jesus as the "Word of God."

Apostolic teaching does not present Jesus as "Word who is God" is the specific meaning of the

logos was the First Cause, the Great Intelligence and Reason behind the Universe

Seems to me, according to your understanding of Greek philosophy is the HS has a great affinity FOR ONLY ARISTOTLE and disregards Plato, Socrates and other schools of Greek philosophy such as the Pyrrhonists, Atomists, Peripatetics, Stoics, Cyrenaic, Epicureans, Megarians, Cynics, etc.

Where do you get this notion of Greek philosophy (mainly Aristotle) and the logos? Please cite your source for this information. You obviously didn't get it from Scripture. Greek philosophy is all over the table and mutually contradictory assumptions....AND YOU COME UP WITH THREE ABSOLUTE TRUTHS OF THE LOGOS FROM GREEK PHILOSOPHY AS EQUIVALENT TO THE BIBLICAL CONCEPT OF THE LOGOS? Are you kidding me?

Hands down...I will take ViaCrucis using Rev. 19:13 as best interpretation and against YOU using the worst interpetation of the logos as 1)First Cause 2)the Great Intelligence 3) Reason behind the Universe as using only the pagan Aristotle's understanding of the universe...to the exclusion of all other pagan Greek philosophers.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Prophecy is given in riddles and not clearly (Nu 12:8), and is subject to more than one interpretation.

Noting that calling Jesus the Word of God isn't a "prophetic riddle"; but an identification of Jesus with the Logos. A common element in all Johanine literature.

It is only the historic Johanine literature that emphatically identifies Jesus as Logos. He is God's Logos, the Word of God.

John's prologue is amazing for a number of reasons, for one it confesses God's Logos to not only be, Himself, God; but also that God's Logos became human. Jesus is God's Logos, Divine Himself, and became human.

The Logos, as an idea, is one that is found in a wide array of Greek philosophies, but also is Judaized in Philo.

John isn't being entirely novel in his talk of the Logos.
John isn't appealing to Greek philosophy only, or to only one stream of Greek philosophy.

John is pulling together Greek and Jewish threads of thought and presenting Jesus as the ultimate historical event: God came into our world. He is Messiah, He is Logos, He is Salvation for Jew and Greek; Jesus the redemption of creation, of every man, woman, and child. The hope of a world broken and dead in sin.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Clare73]

Apostolic teaching does not present Jesus as "Word who is God"

In Jn 1:1, my Bible reads: "and the Word was God."

I do not find "Word of God" referring to Jesus in NT apostolic teaching (gospels, epistles).

Seems to me, according to your understanding of Greek philosophy is the HS has a great affinity FOR ONLY ARISTOTLE and disregards Plato, Socrates and other schools of Greek philosophy such as the Pyrrhonists, Atomists, Peripatetics, Stoics, Cyrenaic, Epicureans, Megarians, Cynics, etc.
Where do you get this notion of Greek philosophy (mainly Aristotle) and the logos? Please cite your source for this information.

C'mon, guy. . .we have internet. . .you don't need me to tell you where that comes from.

You obviously didn't get it from Scripture. Greek philosophy is all over the table and mutually contradictory assumptions....AND YOU COME UP WITH THREE ABSOLUTE TRUTHS OF THE LOGOS FROM GREEK PHILOSOPHY AS EQUIVALENT TO THE BIBLICAL CONCEPT OF THE LOGOS? Are you kidding me?

Sorry you find it so personally offensive, but the fact remains, "Word of God' used in reference to Jesus is not found in NT apostolic didactics.
We find there only the Word who is God.
In apostolic teaching, the Incarnate Word is God, he is not presented as the Word of God.

Why do these Biblical facts bother you so much?

 

[Hazelelponi]

@Ain't Zwinglian - thank you for the Scriptures. I really enjoy how you have them highlighted.

 

[Clare73]

Noting that calling Jesus the Word of God isn't a "prophetic riddle"; but an identification of Jesus with the Logos. A common element in all Johanine literature.

1) God says he gives prophecy in riddles (dark sayings) and not clearly (Nu 12:8).
2) Revelation is prophecy.
3) Only in the prophetic riddle of Rev do we find "Word of God" referring to Jesus.
4) "Word of God" in reference to Jesus is found in neither the gospels nor the epistles.

Which of the above are not Biblical facts?
Do you find those facts objectionable?

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah..... the same guy who wrote John 1:1 wrote Rev. 19:13.

 

[Clare73]

Yeah, yeah, yeah..... the same guy who wrote John 1:1 wrote Rev. 19:13.

As well as Rev 6-7.

Why do those Biblical facts (post #57) bother you so much?

I really don't like our disagreeing. . .