The Earth is young

[GBTG]

Exodus 20:11 from who’s perspective are those “days”? If they are the “days” of God I can agree. If they are 24hr. Days this conflicts with the Bible itself which I have pointed out a number of times...

Warm regards, GBTG

 

[mark kennedy]

Exodus 20:11 from who’s perspective are those “days”? If they are the “days” of God I can agree. If they are 24hr. Days this conflicts with the Bible itself which I have pointed out a number of times...

Warm regards, GBTG

No, what conflicts with the Bible is if they are not 24 hour days.

 

[Radagast]

No, what conflicts with the Bible is if they are not 24 hour days.

The whole concept of a day as a 1440-minute period is one that only came after the invention of the mechanical clock.

 

[Marvin Knox]

My point is simple, not subject to contradiction. All we know about the creation of the universe, literally the 'heavens and the earth', is that it was in the beginning. Creation week happened some time later, it could have been minutes and it could have been billions of years later, there is nothing in Scripture to place this in a moment in time.

It is subject to contradiction and Exodus 20:11 does exactly that.

That isn't all we know about it. We know that it was created sometime within the 6 days of creation. Exodus 20:11 says so.

It could not have happened billions of years "earlier" than creation week. It happened within creation week.

"For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them....." Exodus 20:11

You keep trying to skate out of admitting that you have been wrong by simply saying that it doesn't matter.

If it doesn't matter, why not just agree to what the scriptures say and stop trying to hold one foot in the world's thinking and one in the thinking of the scriptures?

 

[DamianWarS]

The YEC view is that basically the earth is 6-10000 years old. Answers in Genesis list 10 strong evidences for this here.

These are basically the following

#1 Very Little Sediment on the Seafloor
#2 Bent Rock Layers
#3 Soft Tissue in Fossils
#4 Faint Sun Paradox
#5 Rapidly Decaying Magnetic Field
#6 Helium in Radioactive Rocks
#7 Carbon-14 in Fossils, Coal, and Diamonds
#8 Short-Lived Comets
#9 Very Little Salt in the Sea
#10 DNA in “Ancient” Bacteria

How would those of you who believe in an Old Earth counter these scientific arguments?

EDIT:

I thought my OP was clearly focused on the scientific arguments I listed. I will add the text of this post to my OP to clarify that. I have assumed since this is the Christians only section of the forums that everybody here is happy with the view God did it. But yes there is a variance on how he did it. I am happy to hear the opinions of Christians only as to whether the various scientific evidences I listed are credible or not with a focus on the age of the earth.

If the arguments are valid then a YEC position has some scientific credibility, if not then an Old Earth or TE position or day age theory may be better. But I would prefer to discuss the biblical evidences and positions elsewhere. This is focused on the scientific evidences listed. I hope the list is not too long but it gives people the opportunity to pick and mix the ones they are interested in.

if the earth is young genesis is not a reliable source to tell us that. genesis is a lot of things but a science book for the modern western mind it is not.

 

[mark kennedy]

It is subject to contradiction and Exodus 20:11 does exactly that.

That isn't all we know about it. We know that it was created sometime within the 6 days of creation. Exodus 20:11 says so.

It could not have happened billions of years "earlier" than creation week. It happened within creation week.

"For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them....." Exodus 20:11

You keep trying to skate out of admitting that you have been wrong by simply saying that it doesn't matter.

If it doesn't matter, why not just agree to what the scriptures say and stop trying to hold one foot in the world's thinking and one in the thinking of the scriptures?

I'm not skating out of anything, it says, in no uncertain terms that the creation of the universe was 'in the beginning'. Nothing more. The account of creation week happens some time subsequent. There can be no question about that.

 

[KWCrazy]

Its complete nonsense to believe that (A) The earth is 6,000 yrs old (B) That God's word tells us that!

Really? What is NOT supported is an old earth. The Bible is absolutely clear about a young earth. Are you sure we're talking about the same book?

In Mark 10:6, Jesus stated: “From the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female.” How long has humankind been on this Earth? Jesus said “from the beginning of the creation.” Genesis 1:26-31 explains that God chose the sixth day of the Creation week to form mankind from the dust of the ground. Were humans a part of that six-day beginning? Indeed they were. But what does it matter if mankind was formed on day six? Exodus 20:11 records: “For in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day….” Quite simply, that piece of information, combined with the information from Genesis 1 and Mark 10:6, informs us the Earth is exactly five days older than humanity! source

So Jesus says that from the beginning of creation God made man and woman. As a Catholic, you believe that Jesus is the son of God; and that Jesus; being eternal; was witness to the creation. Why, then, do you misrepresent what Jesus said? He did not say that man evolved. He did not correct the Genesis story of sin and death coming into the world through the sin of Adam. He also confirmed the great flood and mentioned Noah by name in Luke 17:27.

The age of the earth revealed in the Bible through the generations of people listed. It shows:
Present to Jesus 2,000 years
Jesus to Abraham 2,000 years (55 generations)
Abraham to Adam 2,000 years (20 generations)

Evolution is contrary to the word of God and therefore we know it is false. it is also contrary to science.
The origination of matter is impossible.
The origination of life is impossible.
The conversion of life from plant to animal is impossible.
The only speciation that has ever been observed is conservative in nature. Deleterious characteristics are extinguished. Beneficial characteristics are accented.

This occurred after the global flood. Christ confirmed the flood, so we know it happened. The truth is not in those who deny what Christ affirmed.

 

[The Times]

We are told by God that after the flood the life span of humans were reduced considerably.

If we compare the pre flood world to the post flood world, something had to have changed from a time reference point of view.

An old earth scenario would have to prove the SAME aging processes throughout time. If there is no such evidence, then it could be said that the young earth world is also implausible, because time itself was changed in a way that we could only understand from a scientific portrayal highlighted in fictional sci-fi movies.

For example.....if a person lived in the pre flood world for 1 hour, this could correlate to 1000 years in the post flood world time reference. So from the vantage point of those living in the pre flood world, the earth is young and from the vantage point of those living in the post flood world, the earth is old.

This would be the only conclusive finding that I would draw. If someone told me if the earth was created in seven literal 24 hour days, then I would say I fully agree, however the hour spent in the pre flood world may turn out to be equivalent to a 1000 years spent in the post flood world.

There is no apples for apples correlation between the pre flood and the post flood worlds.

The Bible time reference that was written in the pre flood world is correct and the scientific claim of an old earth in the post flood world is also correct.

The time was different. We live in a nexus of time, that has changed dramatically.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I'm not skating out of anything, it says, in no uncertain terms that the creation of the universe was 'in the beginning'. Nothing more. The account of creation week happens some time subsequent. There can be no question about that.

The creation of the heavens and the earth took place in the creation week. No question about that.

"For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth........." Exodus 20:11

Creation week is set as about 6000 years ago (as you agree to).

If you say that the creation of the heavens and the earth took place "in the beginning" that can only mean one thing.

The "beginning" was about 6000 years ago.

This is basic deduction and it is basic systematic theology.

Why waffle when the scriptures and logic spell things out beyond argument?

I don't get it.

Unless, of course, you want to somehow keep from being frowned upon by either Bible believing Christians, secular scientists or both.

That's no way to run a faith based life.

 

[DominicBaptiste]

You say that without reference to anything remotely scientific.

I'll let the scientists do their job, and I'll do mine, buddy. ;-)

 

[GBTG]

Seriously?

Please show me the scripture where Adam and Eve were made,then show me the scripture where humans were made, now tell whom Cain was afraid and to whom Cain got married?

There are a lot of assumptions being made that are illogical! Again if we understand that God is perfect he must therefore be perfectly logical. For illogic is fallibility!

Regards, GBTG

 

[KWCrazy]

Please show me the scripture where Adam and Eve were made,then show me the scripture where humans were made, now tell whom Cain was afraid and to whom Cain got married?

The Bible tells us everything we need to be saved. It doesn't give us every fact in our history. It tells us that Adam and Eve were the first people. It doesn't say they were the only people. It tells us of the animals created in the beginning. It doesn't tell us about the parts of the world unknown to the descendants of Adam. It tells us that Satan and his angels were cast out of Heaven and ended up on earth. There is much we are not told. From the pages we have, we know for a fact that man was created on the sixth day of creation by God. We did not evolve. There are many questions to which we do not know the answers. All will be revealed in time. We need to trust in the Lord.

 

[mark kennedy]

I'll let the scientists do their job, and I'll do mine, buddy. ;-)

The scientists have done their job, they are agreeing with the earth being a reducing atmosphere, the earth being covered with thick clouds and water is not in dispute. God creating life is the only real question and that should define the debate.

 

[mark kennedy]

The creation of the heavens and the earth took place in the creation week. No question about that.

"For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth........." Exodus 20:11

Creation week is set as about 6000 years ago (as you agree to).

If you say that the creation of the heavens and the earth took place "in the beginning" that can only mean one thing.

The "beginning" was about 6000 years ago.

No, you are equivocating to separate accounts, it might have been 6000 years ago it might have been billions of years ago. God might have done this before, he might do it again.

This is basic deduction and it is basic systematic theology.

Why waffle when the scriptures and logic spell things out beyond argument?

I don't get it.

Unless, of course, you want to somehow keep from being frowned upon by either Bible believing Christians, secular scientists or both.

That's no way to run a faith based life.

I don't waffle on this, I go by what the Scriptures say. I don't care what scientists say but what they are saying is perfectly in line with what the Scriptures are saying right up to the origin of life. I don't mind that difference, I welcome it.

 

[mark kennedy]

The Bible tells us everything we need to be saved. It doesn't give us every fact in our history. It tells us that Adam and Eve were the first people. It doesn't say they were the only people. It tells us of the animals created in the beginning. It doesn't tell us about the parts of the world unknown to the descendants of Adam. It tells us that Satan and his angels were cast out of Heaven and ended up on earth. There is much we are not told. From the pages we have, we know for a fact that man was created on the sixth day of creation by God. We did not evolve. There are many questions to which we do not know the answers. All will be revealed in time. We need to trust in the Lord.

Well said brother, there is much we don't know.

 

[GBTG]

The Bible tells us everything we need to be saved. It doesn't give us every fact in our history. It tells us that Adam and Eve were the first people. It doesn't say they were the only people. It tells us of the animals created in the beginning. It doesn't tell us about the parts of the world unknown to the descendants of Adam. It tells us that Satan and his angels were cast out of Heaven and ended up on earth. There is much we are not told. From the pages we have, we know for a fact that man was created on the sixth day of creation by God. We did not evolve. There are many questions to which we do not know the answers. All will be revealed in time. We need to trust in the Lord.

Really?

This is simple scripture!

Genesis 1:27-28 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Does this scripture refer to Adam or Eve?

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (This is Adam)

So Adam was made after the 6th “day” of creation according to the Bible.

Genesis 4:13-14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, [that] every one that findeth me shall slay me and Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment [is] greater than I can bear.

Who is Cain afraid of, siblings, parents? Who is the everyone?

Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Where did Cain’s wife come from?

It is logical according to the Bible that Cain’s wife was of the humans in Genesis 1:27-28, and that these are some of the same humans that he was afraid of in Genesis 4:13-14.

Again John 1:1 the answers are in the Bible!

Regards, GBTG

 

[Marvin Knox]

Well said brother, there is much we don't know.

But one thing we do know is that "in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth". Exodus 20:11

Even if every one of the proofs in the OP was shown to be untenable - we can still believe the Word of God on the subject.

The plain reading of Genesis chapter one shows the truth and it is supported by the the rest of the scriptures.

It's your choice to be a man of faith or compromise in order to show yourself approved by the world.

".....O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!" Luke 24:25

 

[GBTG]

On the topic of Adam, what made him special? Was it that he was human (though scripturally not the first), or was it that he was the first human with a living soul?

Is it therefore logical that Adam and his descendants are all that are truly special in the sight of the Lord God almighty and why it’s only this lineage that is recorded?

Regards, GBTG

 

[redleghunter]

So my take is - this is an interesting opinion piece lacking in unbiased evidence and lacks any research what so ever. Still Im sure you will get a lot enjoying the debat

Not debating but curious. What would you consider unbiased with regards to this subject?

I'm sure both YEC and old earth creationists and even theistic evolutionary adherents would all agree Creation was a supernatural "event" which makes us all biased.

The unbiased would most likely be one who believes all there is of evidence is attributed to natural causes. Meaning a naturalistic or material view denying an uncreated Creator.

Or am I being too biased in approaching this.

 

[redleghunter]

In genesis at the beginning you had a planet filled with waters

Or liquid in general. The paleo Hebrew was very concrete. The same word for water was also goats milk. Both are liquid. Maybe God was revealing something very complex but to a Bronze age audience.