The Double Message of Eternal Security.

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

Dan61861 said:
Has God failed? I have yet to meet one man that does not sin. When we walk in the Spirit, we trust that God's Word is true. Through Christ's passion, we are cleansed.

It is by the grace of God through faith in Christ, not our works lest any man should boast

In Christ
Daniel

I'm afraid some people just quote the literal letter as if humans are robots who have a microchip inserted in them and perfectly follows the manual.
They then dumb down the law of God from its pristine level, to a level they kid themselves they perfectly obey it.
Don't know how they can do that, but they do

Dan61861 · Jul 8, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
I'm afraid some people just quote the literal letter as if humans are robots who have a microchip inserted in them and perfectly follows the manual.
They then dumb down the law of God from its pristine level, to a level they kid themselves they perfectly obey it.
Don't know how they can do that, but they do

They bring God down to man's level.
May I never offer God my righteousness.

In Christ
Daniel

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

The

1stcenturylady said:
With the power of the Spirit there is no striving. He has given us the power not to sin willfully. If you do sin willfully, then you are not walking in the Spirit and your doctrine is completely wacked. God will not be mocked.

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
With the power of the Spirit there is no striving. He has given us the power not to sin willfully. If you do sin willfully, then you are not walking in the Spirit and your doctrine is completely wacked. God will not be mocked.

Well as I just quote Pauls gospel message you must believe his doctrine is totally whacked.

Dan61861 · Jul 8, 2017

James chapter 2 is so true.

Don't have respect of persons....for when you do, you begin to put yourself back under the law.

Life is a testimony of this....all law keepers
Jim Jones
Joseph Smith
Ellen White

I could go on....

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

Dan61861 said:
I'm going to save this brother

In Christ
Daniel

I can give you a personal illustration of the truth of Pauls message.
I was raised in an evangelical church, where the Holy Spirit was stressed. But I lived, in reality under an earnest righteousness of observing the law.
By the time I was fifteen I was consumed by all manner of concupiscence( rom7:7) I had tried to attain heaven as Saul the pharisee tried to attain it and got the same result he got.
I walked away from the church, what else could I do? I couldn't live a pure and holy life for God. In the five years since I responded to an altar call, I had become totally corrupted in the flesh
A few years later my life was in a mess. I went to see a man who asked me to read a book. I did. The second chapter was about Pauls message of grace. I was stunned. I had never before heard preached what i was reading now. Christ was my rjghteousness, I could not earn my way to heaven by being good enough under a righteousness of observing the law. I suddenly believed even I could be a Christian, for it did not hinge on my personal goodness, but what Christ had done for me.
But there was a certain sin I had been a slave to for six years. I didn't want it, I desperately wanted to be free of it. I got down on my knees and asked God to deal with it and left it at that.
For the next three days I committed this sin, I was breaking one of the TC in its trust sense. But for the first time in my life I did not let myself feel condemned. Christ was my righteousness before God, not my own personal goodness under the law
A voice in my head relentlessly told me I was a hypocrite and fooling myself. I could not be a Christian and do what I was doing. But with great difficulty I ignored that voice and clung to a righteousness of faith in Christ.
On the fourth day, this sin I had been a slave to for six years stopped. Hallelujah! When I lived under a righteousness of observing the law it only got worse. Paul wrote:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law( of righteousness) but under grace( a righteousness of faith in Christ) rom6:14

It is the most potent, incredible and powerful message preached since Christ walked this earth.
However, there are many totally opposed to it, as you know. As in the Apostles day, and when Christ walked this earth, it is the religious who most vehemently attack the true message.
God bless brother

1stcenturylady · Jul 8, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Well as I just quote Pauls gospel message you must believe his doctrine is totally whacked.

Just walk in the Spirit and THEN you will not be under the law.

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Just walk in the Spirit and THEN you will not be under the law.

Sadly many don't walk after the Spirit. They crush people with impossible demands. Demands they do not demand of themselves.
As far as the east is from the West is as far as such people are from following after the Holy Spirit

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Just walk in the Spirit and THEN you will not be under the law.

BTW

If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin?
Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed I prove I am a lawbreaker
Gal2:16&17

Let us earnestly seek never to rebuild what Paul so earnestly sought to destroy

Dan61861 · Jul 8, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
I can give you a personal illustration of the truth of Pauls message.
I was raised in an evangelical church, where the Holy Spirit was stressed. But I lived, in reality under an earnest righteousness of observing the law.
By the time I was fifteen I was consumed by all manner of concupiscence( rom7:7) I had tried to attain heaven as Saul the pharisee tried to attain it and got the same result he got.
I walked away from the church, what else could I do? I couldn't live a pure and holy life for God. In the five years since I responded to an altar call, I had become totally corrupted in the flesh
A few years later my life was in a mess. I went to see a man who asked me to read a book. I did. The second chapter was about Pauls message of grace. I was stunned. I had never before heard preached what i was reading now. Christ was my rjghteousness, I could not earn my way to heaven by being good enough under a righteousness of observing the law. I suddenly believed even I could be a Christian, for it did not hinge on my personal goodness, but what Christ had done for me.
But there was a certain sin I had been a slave to for six years. I didn't want it, I desperately wanted to be free of it. I got down on my knees and asked God to deal with it and left it at that.
For the next three days I committed this sin, I was breaking one of the TC in its trust sense. But for the first time in my life I did not let myself feel condemned. Christ was my righteousness before God, not my own personal goodness under the law
A voice in my head relentlessly told me I was a hypocrite and fooling myself. I could not be a Christian and do what I was doing. But with great difficulty I ignored that voice and clung to a righteousness of faith in Christ.
On the fourth day, this sin I had been a slave to for six years stopped. Hallelujah! When I lived under a righteousness of observing the law it only got worse. Paul wrote:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law( of righteousness) but under grace( a righteousness of faith in Christ) rom6:14

It is the most potent, incredible and powerful message preached since Christ walked this earth.
However, there are many totally opposed to it, as you know. As in the Apostles day, and when Christ walked this earth, it is the religious who most vehemently attack the true message.
God bless brother

What a wonderful testimony, to God all the glory.

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

In Christ
Daniel

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

Dan61861 said:
What a wonderful testimony, to God all the glory.

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

In Christ
Daniel

Indeed, all the glory is Gods. He will share it with no man, or woman

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

I could be a naughty child at times. I didn't always obey my parents rules. Many times I transgressed them. But my parents never threatened to throw me out of the house. Why not? Because they loved me, I was their child and part of their family.
I got chastised for transgressing the rules at times, but was never threatened with eviction from the house.
I imagine some believe God loves us less than my parents loved me

Dan61861 · Jul 8, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Just walk in the Spirit and THEN you will not be under the law.

This is true. Unfortunately people think they are walking in the Spirit when they are truly walking in the flesh. They search for their own righteousness by their deeds. When we walk in the Spirit, we cleave unto Christ...knowing he is our righteousness.

I so do love that term...Cleave unto Christ.

In Christ
Daniel

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

Dan61861 said:
This is true. Unfortunately people think they are walking in the Spirit when they are truly walking in the flesh. They search for their own righteousness by their deeds. When we walk in the Spirit, we cleave unto Christ...knowing he is our righteousness.

I so do love that term...Cleave unto Christ.

In Christ
Daniel

Amen and Amen

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

For through the law I died to the law that I might live for God.
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live but Christ lives in me. The life I live now, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, Christ died for nothing.
Gal2:19-21

Alithis · Jul 8, 2017

Dan61861 said:
First, these are His words...not mine. I am repeating what he has said.

Since you sit in judgement, yes I share the gospel everyday. I visit an elderly facility as well. But I countil it as nothing.

I get on my knees before a Holy God and ask for mercy...I am a sinner. If you had read the thread you would know this.

In Christ
Daniel

Do you really?why is it not the same as what the apostles preached in the book of acts?

Dan61861 · Jul 8, 2017

Alithis said:
Do you really?who is it not the same as what the apostles preached in the book of acts?

?

Bible Highlighter · Jul 8, 2017

Dan61861 said:
James chapter 2 is so true.

Don't have respect of persons....for when you do, you begin to put yourself back under the law.

Life is a testimony of this....all law keepers
Jim Jones
Joseph Smith
Ellen White

I could go on....

Okay. We have already been over the Jim Jones thing within this thread and you are in error.
Jim Jones used phrases like the "letter of the Law" in hatred of the King James Bible.
Jim Jones did not believe Jesus was God.
Jim Jones desired people to follow Him and not God's Word.
Jim Jones believed in reincarnation.
Jim Jones made people go against their moral conscience to kill themselves.
This is clearly a violation of God's laws.
Yet, Jim Jones wanted people to trust him in the fact that everything was going to be okay.
The danger of Eternal Security is that you can tell people to kill themselves, or sleep around, and or being hateful because what you do does not relate to your salvation because you have a mere belief alone on Jesus. Time and time again we see people enslaved to their sin and committing suicide because of Eternal Security. Just look up George Sodini with the keywords Eternal Security.

....

Bible Highlighter · Jul 8, 2017

It's like you want me to believe that if there was no more punishment for speeding on the highways here in the US, it would magically lead people to drive more safe or slower for some odd reason. But I am sorry; That is simply not reality. More people would speed and do the wrong thing and get themselves either killed or injured seriously if such a law was passed. But what about God's love? Is that not the missing element? I am sorry; I do not see that as being a big change for the Eternal Security proponent for they say they still sin and they still fight for that idea. They say things like it does not depend on my righteousness and God gets all the glory. Really? God gets all the glory if you sin? Right, and I am the Easter bunny.

...

stuart lawrence · Jul 8, 2017

They may be ever seeing but never perceiving
And ever hearing but never understanding

The Double Message of Eternal Security.

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