The Doctrine of Eternal Security-Is It Biblical?

[Normann]

John 6:66
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

 

[greeker57married]

OSAS is not taught in scripture.

The full gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Normann]

Luke 15:21-24
And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. [22] But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: [23] And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: [24] For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

 

[tommiegrant]

Normann, How about make your point within the context of the scriptures rather than picking and chooseing what suits you and ripping it from the context which gives the verse its meaning. You have not proved your point and only weaken it in your continued abuse of the scriptures. How about a real debate on the issue with FULL CONTEXT AND SUPPORTING EVIDENCE. This would be useful rather than is fruitless banter currently being engauged in. In Christ, Tom

 

[cygnusx1]

[move]¶ The righteous also shall hold on his way Job 17:9[/move]

 

[Normann]

Are you being fair with yourself by ignoring passages of scripture or explaining them away? Are you being fair with your self by instructing others to keep in context.

Context is "necessary circumstance" and on the subject of OSAS I have given scripture from various parts of the Bible. Yet I am told to learn about context. Those of you that are innocent souls with a teachable spirit take notice of the reasoning given by those preaching OSAS.

Scriptures that dis-prove their doctrine are either explained away or called "out of context" and sometimes even called "old covenent".

The Bible is simple and easy to understand so that anyone can be saved. Take the word as it is written with an open mind. False doctrines are started by people that already have a pre-set idea of God's plan.

2 Tim. 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[TrueWords]

To all,

Here is some verses to consider,

"The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him he shall be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you" (2 Chronicles 15:2)

and here is another verse,

"...for when they have begun to wax wanton agaisnt Christ...having damnation, because they cast off their first faith...' (1 Timothy 5:11,12)

and

"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith...if thou continued in his goodness: otherwise thou shalt be cut off' (Romans 11:20-23)

Or here is one,

"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold of eternal life...' (1 Timothy 6:12)

to murder is sin, if a person does it willingly and knowngly, and all murderers will have their part in the lake of fire. If a person is smehow unaware of what they are really doing, i speak of a retarded person or someone who has been manipulated by drugs etc, God will judge their hearts.

Bye for now

Bye for now
******** ***

 

[Normann]

To all,

Here is some verses to consider,

"The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him he shall be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you" (2 Chronicles 15:2)

and here is another verse,

"...for when they have begun to wax wanton agaisnt Christ...having damnation, because they cast off their first faith...' (1 Timothy 5:11,12)

and

"Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith...if thou continued in his goodness: otherwise thou shalt be cut off' (Romans 11:20-23)

Or here is one,

"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold of eternal life...' (1 Timothy 6:12)

to murder is sin, if a person does it willingly and knowngly, and all murderers will have their part in the lake of fire. If a person is smehow unaware of what they are really doing, i speak of a retarded person or someone who has been manipulated by drugs etc, God will judge their hearts.

Bye for now

Bye for now
******** ***

Good post- I agree.

 

[cygnusx1]

The Bible is simple and easy to understand so that anyone can be saved. Take the word as it is written

[move]¶ The righteous also shall hold on his way Job 17:9 [/move]

[updown]¶http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/popup.pl?book=Jer&chapter=32&verse=40&version=kjvAnd I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. Jer 32:40[/updown]

 

[Normann]

Romans 11:21-22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. [22] Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[Normann]

2 Peter 3:17
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

 

[cygnusx1]

[sign] and they shall never perish (KJV) John 10:28[/sign] ​

 

[cygnusx1]

2 Peter 3:17
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matt. 24:24

 

[Dragons87]

I think there might be a compromise:

If one decides to follow Christ, then the Holy Spirit will never leave you, thus "eternal salvation"...

until...

one decides to retract from Christ, then the Holy Spirit will leave you - He has to! You don't want Him!

 

[cygnusx1]

I think there might be a compromise:

If one decides to follow Christ, then the Holy Spirit will never leave you, thus "eternal salvation"...

until...

one decides to retract from Christ, then the Holy Spirit will leave you - He has to! You don't want Him!

those who detract are not the Elect , they are "false brethren" ........ like


Jude 3-4 says, "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

2 Thessalonians 2:10--"...they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." They received the truth, but never acquired a love for it, so they fell away.

 

[cygnusx1]

Think of the most unmovable stable fixed thing you can ...........................

The Elect are safer than that!

 

[Normann]

1 Tim. 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Tim. 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Col. 1:23
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

IN THE MASTER'S SERVCIE,
Normann

 

[dandirom]

No matter how hard one searches, one will never find a verse in the Bible that says 'ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED' or 'PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE SINS ARE FORGIVEN'. I have yet to meet a proponent of eternal security who can give me solid biblical proof that there is something in the Bible that states that doctrine.

I do believe we are saved BY GRACE, and GRACE ALONE, NOT BY WORKS. But the Bible is also very clear about what is expected of us once we are saved. In Ephesians 2:8-10 it is clear we are not saved 'as a result of works', but after receiving His salvation we should prove our faith by what we do for we are 'His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.'

The Bible clearly states, and I quote the NASB version, that 'no one will snatch them out of My hand'. True, no question there. But what if that person chooses to go out of the Father's hand? We all have been given free will, the choice of life and death, blessing and cursing. I do believe a Christian is secure in Christ but the Bible does give conditions for remaining in His love. 'If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as i have kept my father's commandments, and abide in his love'. 'If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.' I don't think that the conditional security of the believer belittles God's mercy, the fact that He died for us 'while we were yet sinners' is proof enough of God's love for us but He is also a just God - He cannot, He will not, and He will never condone sin.

'Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith, Be not high-minded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE in his goodness: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.'

'But God cannot go back on His promises', some will say. True, God has promised salvation to those who believe - but He has also given His word about what will happen to those who don't believe or forsake Him. He cannot break those promises too. He clearly states in His Word what He will do to those believers who make a choice to forsake Him and to those who don't listen to His Word - those are promises that He cannot break. The Bible reiterates that salvation is for those who believe, for those who love Him - and the Bible is clear that to love Him and to believe in Him is to obey Him. Yes, God has never and will never break a single promise to His Children - just don't forget that He always gives us two choices. If we choose His righteousness He has a promise for that, and if we choose to do evil even after we have received Him God also made a promise about that - and as everyone knows, God never goes back on a promise.

'And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him.
He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.'

'They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation' - Yes, we did not receive salvation because of works but He did give a condition that once we receive Him we should obey Him. 'And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?'

His sacrifice is so precious and so sacred that when we sin wilfully we are treading 'under foot the Son of God' and counting 'the blood of the covenant' wherewith we have been sanctified, 'an unholy thing' and are doing 'despite unto the Spirit of Grace'.

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?'

'What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.'

Being under grace does not give us a license to sin - our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has also given a promise about what He will do to those who continue in Sin or go back to sin despite having tasted of the heavenly gift.

'For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.
They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered His people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.'

'But if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS.' - We all know what the portion of the unbelievers is.

And take Matthew 22 verse 1-14 for example. The wedding parable is about God's invitation to salvation. The guests are those who accepted His invitation. But when you accept the invitation, you are supposed to take of your old nature and clothe yourself with His righteousness. 'And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: (Romans13:13-14 has something about clothing ourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, also Ephesians 4:20-24)
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For many are called, but few are chosen.'

He is a merciful and loving God - but He is also a just and fearful God. Time and again, He destroyed those of His chosen people who did not believe. 'Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted...Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents...Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.'

As I stated at the start, Salvation is by grace and grace alone - ABSOLUTELY NOT of works. But we need to remember that Christ died to save us from sin - to continue in sin after receiving Him and to claim that a person is still saved is a claim the Bible clearly and explicitly repudates. It's tantamount to saying that God condones sin - it totally defeats the purpose of His sacrifice on the cross. Yes, NOBODY can ever claim to be without sin but God has laid down the sins that are unto death. Sins that NO ONE who does them, saved or not, could ever inherit HIS kingdom. Those are the WILFULL SINS. When you snap at someone, or say something wrong, or lose your temper - those aren't premeditated sins, not wilfull sins. 'Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication...Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred...murders, drunkenness...and such like" of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.' When a Christian commits adultery or fornication those are sins where he or she has to make a conscious decision to sin - to trample on His death and insult the Spirit of grace. That is wilfull - on cannot say, oh, I just stumbled and next thing I knew this girl was right there. The problem I have with the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved (aside from the fact that there is absolutely no verse in the Bible that says that) is because many of its proponents actually claim that even if you die while commiting adultery, if you commit suicide, if you die in the act of fornication, if you had accepted Christ before you are still saved. That is not grace but a disgrace. Where is the purity of Christian life? How are we different from the world if Christ has no standards?

'Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot?' 'What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?' - It is very clear that His Spirit will never be one with an harlot so the moment a Christian commits that sin the Spirit will surely leave that person and we know that anyone who dies WITHOUT the Spirit has no seal because the Spirit is the seal. Or are we to believe that the HOLY SPIRIT (I believe we all know what HOLY means) will continue to stay in a person while that very same person is commiting a sin unto death and actUally 'insulting the SPIRIT OF GRACE'?

 

[AnthonyE1778]

No matter how hard one searches, one will never find a verse in the Bible that says 'ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED' or 'PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE SINS ARE FORGIVEN'. I have yet to meet a proponent of eternal security who can give me solid biblical proof that there is something in the Bible that states that doctrine.

I do believe we are saved BY GRACE, and GRACE ALONE, NOT BY WORKS. But the Bible is also very clear about what is expected of us once we are saved. In Ephesians 2:8-10 it is clear we are not saved 'as a result of works', but after receiving His salvation we should prove our faith by what we do for we are 'His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.'

The Bible clearly states, and I quote the NASB version, that 'no one will snatch them out of My hand'. True, no question there. But what if that person chooses to go out of the Father's hand? We all have been given free will, the choice of life and death, blessing and cursing. I do believe a Christian is secure in Christ but the Bible does give conditions for remaining in His love. 'If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as i have kept my father's commandments, and abide in his love'. 'If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.' I don't think that the conditional security of the believer belittles God's mercy, the fact that He died for us 'while we were yet sinners' is proof enough of God's love for us but He is also a just God - He cannot, He will not, and He will never condone sin.

'Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith, Be not high-minded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE in his goodness: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.'

'But God cannot go back on His promises', some will say. True, God has promised salvation to those who believe - but He has also given His word about what will happen to those who don't believe or forsake Him. He cannot break those promises too. He clearly states in His Word what He will do to those believers who make a choice to forsake Him and to those who don't listen to His Word - those are promises that He cannot break. The Bible reiterates that salvation is for those who believe, for those who love Him - and the Bible is clear that to love Him and to believe in Him is to obey Him. Yes, God has never and will never break a single promise to His Children - just don't forget that He always gives us two choices. If we choose His righteousness He has a promise for that, and if we choose to do evil even after we have received Him God also made a promise about that - and as everyone knows, God never goes back on a promise.

'And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him.
He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.'

'They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation' - Yes, we did not receive salvation because of works but He did give a condition that once we receive Him we should obey Him. 'And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?'

His sacrifice is so precious and so sacred that when we sin wilfully we are treading 'under foot the Son of God' and counting 'the blood of the covenant' wherewith we have been sanctified, 'an unholy thing' and are doing 'despite unto the Spirit of Grace'.

'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?'

'What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.'

Being under grace does not give us a license to sin - our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has also given a promise about what He will do to those who continue in Sin or go back to sin despite having tasted of the heavenly gift.

'For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.
They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered His people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.'

'But if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS.' - We all know what the portion of the unbelievers is.

And take Matthew 22 verse 1-14 for example. The wedding parable is about God's invitation to salvation. The guests are those who accepted His invitation. But when you accept the invitation, you are supposed to take of your old nature and clothe yourself with His righteousness. 'And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: (Romans13:13-14 has something about clothing ourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, also Ephesians 4:20-24)
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
For many are called, but few are chosen.'

He is a merciful and loving God - but He is also a just and fearful God. Time and again, He destroyed those of His chosen people who did not believe. 'Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted...Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents...Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.'

As I stated at the start, Salvation is by grace and grace alone - ABSOLUTELY NOT of works. But we need to remember that Christ died to save us from sin - to continue in sin after receiving Him and to claim that a person is still saved is a claim the Bible clearly and explicitly repudates. It's tantamount to saying that God condones sin - it totally defeats the purpose of His sacrifice on the cross. Yes, NOBODY can ever claim to be without sin but God has laid down the sins that are unto death. Sins that NO ONE who does them, saved or not, could ever inherit HIS kingdom. Those are the WILFULL SINS. When you snap at someone, or say something wrong, or lose your temper - those aren't premeditated sins, not wilfull sins. 'Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication...Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred...murders, drunkenness...and such like" of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.' When a Christian commits adultery or fornication those are sins where he or she has to make a conscious decision to sin - to trample on His death and insult the Spirit of grace. That is wilfull - on cannot say, oh, I just stumbled and next thing I knew this girl was right there. The problem I have with the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved (aside from the fact that there is absolutely no verse in the Bible that says that) is because many of its proponents actually claim that even if you die while commiting adultery, if you commit suicide, if you die in the act of fornication, if you had accepted Christ before you are still saved. That is not grace but a disgrace. Where is the purity of Christian life? How are we different from the world if Christ has no standards?

'Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot?' 'What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?' - It is very clear that His Spirit will never be one with an harlot so the moment a Christian commits that sin the Spirit will surely leave that person and we know that anyone who dies WITHOUT the Spirit has no seal because the Spirit is the seal. Or are we to believe that the HOLY SPIRIT (I believe we all know what HOLY means) will continue to stay in a person while that very same person is commiting a sin unto death and actUally 'insulting the SPIRIT OF GRACE'?

while I agree what you are saying, dandirom, you are adding human good works to the equation. Once you add human works to the equation, you nullify grace. That is not good.

 

[dandirom]

Hi there Anthony. I guess my point wasn't so clear. But I did state that 'Salvation is by grace and grace alone - ABSOLUTELY NOT of works.' I did forget one important thing, Grace, THROUGH Faith. Anyway, I'm not talking about works as a way to earn salvation. I'm talking about God's condition that we submit to His Word, that we obey His Word to remain in Him. Obviously, anyone who does not obey Him is not remaining in Him - I don't believe that goes into the 'salvation by works' classification. The Bible, even in the New Testament, does lay down God's conditions for His people.