The Doctrine of Eternal Security-Is It Biblical?

[AnthonyE1778]

The doctrine of eternal security states that if you have had one moment of belief in Christ then you are immediately shot into God's inner circle of fellowship...you are eternally saved and there is nothing that you can do to get out of it. There is no great sin or act that you can commit that will take you out of fellowship with God. Even Blasphemy! I happen to agree with this doctrine. I call it the "Circles of Fellowship with God".

(John 3:16) A moment of faith alone in Christ alone shoots you into the innermost circle entitled "Experiential Truth". Inside this inner circle you earn eternal rewards (Matthew 6:19-20; 1st Corinthians 3:11-15) and you have personal fellowship with God (1st John 1:3-10). It is a temporal blessing. However, unconfessed sin will put you into the outer circle of fellowship in which the believer will recieve discipline (Hebrews 12), will lose rewards (Galatians 5; Ephesians 5), and enables the doctrine of sinning unto death (1st John 5:16). The believer still has, however, eternal life forever in the family of God (John 1:12-13) and is still born again (John 3:3-18). Once the believer confesses his/her known sins (1st John 1:9) they are back in the inner circle. Anyplace outside these two circles of course is also known as the "state of the unbeliever".

Now I have read the scriptures and presented my facts to many people before and some still claim that actions such as "suicide" will get you straight into hell whether you are saved or not. What is your opinion on the matter?

 

[DeaconDean]

Anthony,
I would present an answer based on my beliefs and according to what I have gleened from the Bible. I'm one who believes in O.S.A.S. But as you will find out, in this forum you will get a wide range of answers both positive and negitive. Like I said, I would answer but based on past experiences, I will leave the answers to others and not get bashed as I have in the past. Good luck searching for your answers.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Complete and eternal salvation by God's grace alone, received as the gift of God through the Holy Spirit in personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work (Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-7; I Peter 1:18-19). The Holy Spirit seals our salvation. There is nothing that can keep me from assurance except my own faith. Its not about thinking our way into salvation or to reason our way into salvation. The only way to get in is to believe Him with my heart which is sealed by the Holy Spirit. Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1).

 

[BarbB]

Both of the above, plus assume for the moment that some behavior on my part could jeopardize my salvation - why on earth would I do that? Now that I've basked in the love of God, why would I do anything to remove myself from it? I truly don't think I'd be capable of committing such a heinous act.

 

[AnthonyE1778]

Both of the above, plus assume for the moment that some behavior on my part could jeopardize my salvation - why on earth would I do that? Now that I've basked in the love of God, why would I do anything to remove myself from it? I truly don't think I'd be capable of committing such a heinous act.

There is also the issue of John MAcArthur's "Lordship Salvation" which states that a person is not saved if he has committed an act or series of acts so terrible as to take ones life, rape, etc...

 

[BarbB]

There is also the issue of John MAcArthur's "Lordship Salvation" which states that a person is not saved if he has committed an act or series of acts so terrible as to take ones life, rape, etc...

I personally like John MacArthur and respect his teaching. So, he's saying that if you say you are a Christian but then go on to rape or murder or something awful, then you were never saved? If so, that's what I believe also! That deed is proof that you were never saved. Can you be saved afterwards since you claimed you were saved before? Dunno.

Edit: Thanks Anthony - another MacArthur book to get!

 

[AnthonyE1778]

I personally like John MacArthur and respect his teaching. So, he's saying that if you say you are a Christian but then go on to rape or murder or something awful, then you were never saved? If so, that's what I believe also! That deed is proof that you were never saved. Can you be saved afterwards since you claimed you were saved before? Dunno.

Edit: Thanks Anthony - another MacArthur book to get!

Hehe. You are most welcome. I also respect MacArthur's teaching and agree that he is an awesome evangelist, writer, and speaker. I do however take issue with him on his Lordship Salvation.

 

[BarbB]

Hehe. You are most welcome. I also respect MacArthur's teaching and agree that he is an awesome evangelist, writer, and speaker. I do however take issue with him on his Lordship Salvation.

So would my brother! You should have seen his face when I said "I am a pentacostal Christian who believes somewhat in Calvinism and OSAS. He turned 10 shades of purple until I asked him if there were any circumstances where he would commit a rape. Then he understood what I meant. He still didn't agree, but he understood.

 

[seekingpurity047]

The doctrine of eternal security states that if you have had one moment of belief in Christ then you are immediately shot into God's inner circle of fellowship...you are eternally saved and there is nothing that you can do to get out of it. There is no great sin or act that you can commit that will take you out of fellowship with God. Even Blasphemy! I happen to agree with this doctrine. I call it the "Circles of Fellowship with God".

(John 3:16) A moment of faith alone in Christ alone shoots you into the innermost circle entitled "Experiential Truth". Inside this inner circle you earn eternal rewards (Matthew 6:19-20; 1st Corinthians 3:11-15) and you have personal fellowship with God (1st John 1:3-10). It is a temporal blessing. However, unconfessed sin will put you into the outer circle of fellowship in which the believer will recieve discipline (Hebrews 12), will lose rewards (Galatians 5; Ephesians 5), and enables the doctrine of sinning unto death (1st John 5:16). The believer still has, however, eternal life forever in the family of God (John 1:12-13) and is still born again (John 3:3-18). Once the believer confesses his/her known sins (1st John 1:9) they are back in the inner circle. Anyplace outside these two circles of course is also known as the "state of the unbeliever".

Now I have read the scriptures and presented my facts to many people before and some still claim that actions such as "suicide" will get you straight into hell whether you are saved or not. What is your opinion on the matter?

Anthony, I think this is a misunderstand of what Eternal Security means. The doctrine of faith alone doesn't mean that, once you believe, you can go on doing wahtever it is you want. Allow me to explain.

A. Salvation involves repentance. Now the word "repent" from the greek is metanoia, which actually means change of mind. Now, as it says in Mark. 1:15

"Jesus said: 'The kingdom of Heaven is at hand; repent and believe the gospel.'"

Now, because repentance means to change your mind, you should change your mind about sin when you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This would make you inclined NOT to sin anymore. You don't want to be involved in pornography, you don't want to be involved in stealing, drugs, excessive alcoholism, etc etc.

B. God makes sure that do works. It is God who works in us. Look at Phil 2:12-13

12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

God makes sure of it that we do works. Understand this: faith = salvation + works. For it is said in James 2:26.

26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

If you aren't changing your mind, and doing works, then God cannot possibly be working in you, therefore you were never saved in the first place. For it is said in 1 John 2:19

19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

If you go around swearing without caring, this is a sign that... you may very well not be saved. Re-think your thoughts, eternal security does NOT mean taht you can go around sinning and wahtever. It means that God will make sure you will not be like that.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[NeoGRizzly]

I was kind of going throuh the same thing. I was reading hebrews and I came upon this verse and it hit me so hard that so time I would just lay on the floor under the covers. but then I remembered that even in the old testement God was a come back to me and i'll take you in kind of guy. and when I remembered that I was so glad, happy, and joyful.

 

[AnthonyE1778]

Anthony, I think this is a misunderstand of what Eternal Security means. The doctrine of faith alone doesn't mean that, once you believe, you can go on doing wahtever it is you want. Allow me to explain.

A. Salvation involves repentance. Now the word "repent" from the greek is metanoia, which actually means change of mind. Now, as it says in Mark. 1:15

"Jesus said: 'The kingdom of Heaven is at hand; repent and believe the gospel.'"

Now, because repentance means to change your mind, you should change your mind about sin when you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This would make you inclined NOT to sin anymore. You don't want to be involved in pornography, you don't want to be involved in stealing, drugs, excessive alcoholism, etc etc.

B. God makes sure that do works. It is God who works in us. Look at Phil 2:12-13

12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

God makes sure of it that we do works. Understand this: faith = salvation + works. For it is said in James 2:26.

26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

If you aren't changing your mind, and doing works, then God cannot possibly be working in you, therefore you were never saved in the first place. For it is said in 1 John 2:19

19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

If you go around swearing without caring, this is a sign that... you may very well not be saved. Re-think your thoughts, eternal security does NOT mean taht you can go around sinning and wahtever. It means that God will make sure you will not be like that.

To the glory of God,

Randy

I agree however I do believe that there are "carnal" christians out there in the world today.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

I agree however I do believe that there are "carnal" christians out there in the world today.

What do you do with Romans 8:7, which says that "the carnal (or sinful) mind is enmity with God"?

 

[GrinningDwarf]

The doctrine of eternal security states that if you have had one moment of belief in Christ then you are immediately shot into God's inner circle of fellowship...you are eternally saved and there is nothing that you can do to get out of it. There is no great sin or act that you can commit that will take you out of fellowship with God. Even Blasphemy! I happen to agree with this doctrine. I call it the "Circles of Fellowship with God"...

What you present here seems to be the common view of eternal security, but I don't think it's accurate. It focus' on your 'one moment of belief'.

I do believe in what I would call the 'perseverance of the saints'. A believer is secure but not because of one decision of his in one moment in time. A believer is secure because God changed the person's heart and made them able to make the decision in the first place. My security is not in what I have done (because I'd mess it up for sure), but in what God has done.

 

[mlqurgw]

There is a diference between OSAS, eternal security and perseverence of the saints. Far too many are relying on OSAS who live like hell but because they once made a profession of faith when they were children they think everything is OK with God. Perseverence of the saints is that a believer will fail and fall but in the tenor of their lives they will seek to honor Christ. I once was driving home from work and was stuck in a traffic jam, it was hot and I had the windows down, and in the lane beside me two girls in two seperate cars were talking quite loudly about how drunk they had been that weekend and how they had partied so hard. I reached out the window and gave one of them a tract and her response to me was that she was already saved. She then related to me how she had made a decision for Christ when she was a little girl and knew that she was saved. Nothing I could say to her would change her mind.

 

[seekingpurity047]

There is a diference between OSAS, eternal security and perseverence of the saints. Far too many are relying on OSAS who live like hell but because they once made a profession of faith when they were children they think everything is OK with God. Perseverence of the saints is that a believer will fail and fall but in the tenor of their lives they will seek to honor Christ. I once was driving home from work and was stuck in a traffic jam, it was hot and I had the windows down, and in the lane beside me two girls in two seperate cars were talking quite loudly about how drunk they had been that weekend and how they had partied so hard. I reached out the window and gave one of them a tract and her response to me was that she was already saved. She then related to me how she had made a decision for Christ when she was a little girl and knew that she was saved. Nothing I could say to her would change her mind.

Very interesting example, I like it, as a matter of fact. Faith alone is the truth, but through true saving faith, works are created, repentance toward sin, taht is. People misunderstand waht faith alone means, and that's why people resort to faith + works. One has to understand that true saving faith produces works! It doesn't mean that, you place your trust in Jesus Christ, then it's right to go and have sex with sixteen women at once and not care about it at all. That person was never saved.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[seekingpurity047]

I agree however I do believe that there are "carnal" christians out there in the world today.

That's heresy, unless they come back to Christ with true saving faith.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I personally like John MacArthur and respect his teaching. So, he's saying that if you say you are a Christian but then go on to rape or murder or something awful, then you were never saved? If so, that's what I believe also! That deed is proof that you were never saved. Can you be saved afterwards since you claimed you were saved before? Dunno.

Edit: Thanks Anthony - another MacArthur book to get!

I'm sorry, but that's the equivalent of saying that the Lord will not forgive those of their sins. Even Peter sinned, when he denied Christ three times, and was still forgiven. We can't base our faith and convictions on what a man says, only on what the Word of the Lord says.

 

[DeaconDean]

We can't base our faith and convictions on what a man says, only on what the Word of the Lord says.

Amen!

 

[Catholic Dude]

seekingpurity047-

Anthony, I think this is a misunderstand of what Eternal Security means. The doctrine of faith alone doesn't mean that, once you believe, you can go on doing wahtever it is you want. Allow me to explain.

A. Salvation involves repentance. Now the word "repent" from the greek is metanoia, which actually means change of mind. Now, as it says in Mark. 1:15

"Jesus said: 'The kingdom of Heaven is at hand; repent and believe the gospel.'"

Now, because repentance means to change your mind, you should change your mind about sin when you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This would make you inclined NOT to sin anymore. You don't want to be involved in pornography, you don't want to be involved in stealing, drugs, excessive alcoholism, etc etc.

So what happens if someone does end up sinning in one of these ways, or worse?

B. God makes sure that do works. It is God who works in us. Look at Phil 2:12-13

12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

God makes sure of it that we do works.

What does the line "work out your salvation with fear and trembling mean"?

Understand this: faith = salvation + works. For it is said in James 2:26.

26For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Actually that is not what James2 says at all, in fact it says "we are justified by works and NOT by faith alone"

If you aren't changing your mind, and doing works, then God cannot possibly be working in you, therefore you were never saved in the first place.

So if someone is a mass murderer for part of their life then they were never saved in the first place?

What if a Calvinist pastor went out and robbed a bank?

For it is said in 1 John 2:19

19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Can you simply conclude that because the prodigal son left his father that he was never "elect" in the first place?

The real context o 1Jn2:19 is talking about antichrists, but thats another issue.

If you go around swearing without caring, this is a sign that... you may very well not be saved. Re-think your thoughts, eternal security does NOT mean taht you can go around sinning and wahtever. It means that God will make sure you will not be like that.

So what happens when someone recognizes they were never saved in the first place? Do they cry that God abandoned them and just wait in shame and sorrow for hell with no hope whatsoever?

 

[seekingpurity047]

seekingpurity047-

So what happens if someone does end up sinning in one of these ways, or worse?


What does the line "work out your salvation with fear and trembling mean"?


Actually that is not what James2 says at all, in fact it says "we are justified by works and NOT by faith alone"


So if someone is a mass murderer for part of their life then they were never saved in the first place?

What if a Calvinist pastor went out and robbed a bank?



Can you simply conclude that because the prodigal son left his father that he was never "elect" in the first place?

The real context o 1Jn2:19 is talking about antichrists, but thats another issue.


So what happens when someone recognizes they were never saved in the first place? Do they cry that God abandoned them and just wait in shame and sorrow for hell with no hope whatsoever?

Clearly, you misunderstand.

1. What happens if someone does end up sinning in one of these ways, or worse?

If they have a repentant heart (changed view toward sins), they will confess their sin to God, and God will forgive them.

2. THe work out your salvation with fear + trembling. Contextually, God is working so that we may work out our salvation with fear and trembling. God works in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure. He makes sure of it that we work out our salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in us in this way.

3. If that person doesn't have a repentant heart toward murdering those people (once again, change of view toward sin, change of mind, etc), then he was never saved to begin with. If a calvinist pastor went and robbed a bank, same situation, if he never repented (changed mind), then he was never saved in the first place.

4. The prodigal son came back, did he not? Therefore he would be considered elect. As for the context of 1 John 2:9, who are the antichrists? Surely, it is not just simply talking about Satan, but it is talking about people. If someone because an "anti-christ" or against Christ, though he once was a "christian", well he was never saved in the first place.

5. If someone claims to have realized they were never saved in the first place, well... wouldn't they have repented (changed minds), and therefore, are saved anyway? Your question is illogical since nobody can realize taht they were never saved, because if someone thinks that, he/she will want to be saved, and therefore "repent and believe the gospel."

To the glory of God,

Randy