The difference between Liberals and Conservatives

[Job8]

I would also venture to say it sounds like liberals are probably better adapted for a peaceful modern world.

Since "a peaceful modern world" is just a pipe dream, then we must conclude that liberals prefer fantasy over reality. All of their left-liberal notions confirm this.

pipe dream
noun

1. an unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme.
   synonyms: fantasy, false hope, illusion, delusion, daydream,chimera; More

 

[Gracchus]

I've seen silly studies like these. How do you explain liberals, who when confronted with truths they didn't know, become conservatives? Plenty of people say the Democrat party left them, not the other way around.

They are "silly" because...?
You can make a liberal conservative very easily in either of two ways: You can frighten him or you can get him drunk.
And lately, I have been hearing people say that the Republicans have walked away from them. If you pay particular attention, you can hear just about anything. That is when science becomes very useful.

 

[brewmama]

They are "silly" because...?
You can make a liberal conservative very easily in either of two ways: You can frighten him or you can get him drunk.
And lately, I have been hearing people say that the Republicans have walked away from them. If you pay particular attention, you can hear just about anything. That is when science becomes very useful.

They are silly because they do not address the questions I asked, nor did you, and you don't seem to have any understanding of how and why liberals become conservatives.

 

[Gracchus]

They are silly because they do not address the questions I asked, nor did you, and you don't seem to have any understanding of how and why liberals become conservatives.

I referenced the studies in response to The Outlier. I don't think I had noticed you at all.There have been other studies on why liberals become conservatives, and, as I noted, the easiest way to make such a conversion, is to overload with fear or alcohol. Conservatives like simple answers. Frightened people do not usually interpose the anterior cingulate cortex between the amygdala and the fight/flight response. Drunks can't.There are studies, and that does seem to correlate with observation.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Perhaps liberal and conservative have become meaningless terms. My dear sister is a dyed-in-the-wool liberal who only votes for Democrats. The problem is that she does so expecting them to apply conservative methods to solve problems. And if you examined her life, without listening to her talk, you would swear she was a conservative. Curious.

 

[Gracchus]

Perhaps liberal and conservative have become meaningless terms. My dear sister is a dyed-in-the-wool liberal who only votes for Democrats. The problem is that she does so expecting them to apply conservative methods to solve problems. And if you examined her life, without listening to her talk, you would swear she was a conservative. Curious.

"Liberal" and "conservative" are terms that may be applied in many different areas. It is not a black and white matter, or even just shades of grey.
Still, liberals and conservatives do tend to cluster around certain beliefs and attitudes, and psycho-neurology seems to explain why.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

"Liberal" and "conservative" are terms that may be applied in many different areas. It is not a black and white matter, or even just shades of grey.
Still, liberals and conservatives do tend to cluster around certain beliefs and attitudes, and psycho-neurology seems to explain why.

I judge that by what people do rather how they talk, or appear. Of course I may be pigeonholing people unfairly in that regard. I tend to view people who do thoughtless things as 'liberal', meaning 'without regard for conventional rules and courtesies'; the general failure to consider the consequences of their actions. A 'happy-go-lucky-devil-may-care' attitude.

A recent study I heard about (can't cite it) revealed that liberals are generally happier than conservatives, because conservatives dwell more on what is wrong with the world than what is right. Liberals don't seem to carry that burden.

 

[brewmama]

I referenced the studies in response to The Outlier. I don't think I had noticed you at all.There have been other studies on why liberals become conservatives, and, as I noted, the easiest way to make such a conversion, is to overload with fear or alcohol. Conservatives like simple answers. Frightened people do not usually interpose the anterior cingulate cortex between the amygdala and the fight/flight response. Drunks can't.There are studies, and that does seem to correlate with observation.

Oh I'm sure there are "studies", that actually prove nothing except that some ideas are so stupid only intellectuals believe them. Speaking for myself, and all other conservatives I know who used to be liberal, you really have no idea how to make a conversion.
Question:
Who is more terrified of mankind destroying the planet despite lack of any real evidence and continually false predictions?
Who is more afraid of Christians and conservatives than they are actual threats like terrorism?
Who is so afraid of radical Muslims, communists, and any other tyrants in the world that they dare not speak a word against them, and consider those who do to be "cowboys, dangerous, etc. and therefore to be feared also?
Who is terrified of allowing citizens to arm themselves or even to run their own lives without the elites dictating everything? In other words, afraid of freedom?

Answer to all: Liberals

 

[Gracchus]

Oh I'm sure there are "studies", that actually prove nothing except that some ideas are so stupid only intellectuals believe them.

You are, then, by your own admission, not an intellect?

Speaking for myself, and all other conservatives I know who used to be liberal, you really have no idea how to make a conversion.

Nor have I a clue how to go about teaching a pig to play the violin.

Question:
Who is more terrified of mankind destroying the planet despite lack of any real evidence and continually false predictions?

Well, this website lists more than a hundred Christians who have predicted, falsely, the end of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

So, I would guess the answer is: Christians.

Who is more afraid of Christians and conservatives than they are actual threats like terrorism?

I am not particularly afraid of terrorists. I do have some anxieties about my country falling into the hands of those who despise intelligence.

Who is so afraid of radical Muslims, communists, and any other tyrants in the world that they dare not speak a word against them, and consider those who do to be "cowboys, dangerous, etc. and therefore to be feared also?

The answer to this one is easy: It is the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden. Or was it the leprechauns?

Who is terrified of allowing citizens to arm themselves or even to run their own lives without the elites dictating everything?

Some amorphous and undefined figment of your imagination?

In other words, afraid of freedom?

That's easy! Those who say, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." Ephesians 6:5 NIV

Answer to all: Liberals

Who is afraid of liberals? We radicals aren't.
Once upon a time, you would have been making all those claims about other groups, probably racially or religiously defined groups. Some folks just have to be scared of strangers, and will have to find enemies to blame for everything that bothers them.
Who's afraid? YOU ARE!

 

[Albion]

Well, this website lists more than a hundred Christians who have predicted, falsely, the end of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

So, I would guess the answer is: Christians.

I don't think there's any merit in a claim that says that because "more than a hundred Christians" (of varying levels of credibility) predicted such a thing, the largest religion in world history is described by such a statistic. Percentage-wise, that would that be...0.000000000001?

 

[brewmama]

You are, then, by your own admission, not an intellect?

Not an intellectual.

Nor have I a clue how to go about teaching a pig to play the violin.

Yet you persist in erroneously claiming how to convert to conservatism.

Well, this website lists more than a hundred Christians who have predicted, falsely, the end of the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

So, I would guess the answer is: Christians.

Predicting the end of the world as prophecy is different from predicting the end of the world from fear, as the alarmist fundamentalists of AGW do.

I am not particularly afraid of terrorists. I do have some anxieties about my country falling into the hands of those who despise intelligence.

Exactly my point.

The answer to this one is easy: It is the fairies who live at the bottom of your garden. Or was it the leprechauns?

Are you really so ignorant of the liberal reaction to Reagan and Bush, the "cowboys", that spoke up against our enemies and therefore terrified liberals?

Some amorphous and undefined figment of your imagination?

Nope. This one is definitely liberals. But your inability to erect a rebuttal is noted.

That's easy! Those who say, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." Ephesians 6:5 NIV
Who is afraid of liberals? We radicals aren't.
Once upon a time, you would have been making all those claims about other groups, probably racially or religiously defined groups. Some folks just have to be scared of strangers, and will have to find enemies to blame for everything that bothers them.
Who's afraid? YOU ARE!

You are the one who brought up fear, and making claims about who is afraid, not me. I am merely pointing out what an idiotic idea it is that conservatives are fear-based and liberals are not. And I don't fear liberals, although they do shock me. I pray for them.

I, and others like me, live in much less fear than I ever did as a liberal. Since you want to quote Scripture I will also.

"Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me.

The LORD is my light and my salvation-- whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life-- of whom shall I be afraid?
Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good?

But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened."

There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.

Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid."

And pages more. It's not something I would expect atheists, or pantheists, to understand. And any predictable reply about "superstition", "fairies and leprechauns; fantasy," in order to mock those who believe and make yourself feel superior is irrelevant. Our belief makes us less afraid, whether you believe it or not.

 

[Gracchus]

I don't think there's any merit in a claim that says that because "more than a hundred Christians" (of varying levels of credibility) predicted such a thing, the largest religion in world history is described by such a statistic. Percentage-wise, that would that be...0.000000000001?

Excuse me, but shouldn't you calculate the percentage from the ratio of Christians to non-Christians making predictions? Of course the list is not exhaustive. And it does not list or enumerate the number of those believing such predictions.
I, myself, do not think that the world will end anytime soon. There are incredibly hard times already upon us, to be sure, and even a possibility of human extinction, but the world probably has several more billion years to go. Stars falling from the sky, however, I must regard as "improbable".

 

[Gracchus]

Not an intellectual.

“An intellectual is a person who engages in critical study, thought, and reflection about the reality of society, and proposes solutions for the normative problems of society, and by such discourse in the public sphere gains authority from public opinion.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IntellectualWikipedia


“intellectual adjective
1. appealing to or engaging the intellect : intellectual pursuits.
2. of or relating to the intellect or its use: intellectual powers.
3. possessing or showing intellect or mental capacity, especially to a high degree: an intellectual person.
4. guided or developed by or relying on the intellect rather than upon emotions or feelings; rational.
5. characterized by or suggesting a predominance of intellect : an intellectual way of speaking.
Noun
6. a person of superior intellect.
7. a person who places a high value on or pursues things of interest to the intellect or the more complex forms and fields of knowledge, as aesthetic or philosophical matters, especially on an abstract and general level.
8. an extremely rational person; a person who relies on intellect rather than on emotions or feelings.
9. a person professionally engaged in mental labor, as a writer or teacher.
10. intellectuals, Archaic.
the mental faculties.
things pertaining to the intellect.”

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intellectual

Clearly, you are not an intellectual. I suspected such.

Yet you persist in erroneously claiming how to convert to conservatism.

The studies cited would seem to indicate that liberals and conservatives are born. However, just as in other primates, aging humans tend to lose the ability to learn. Humans, being neotonous, tend to retain mental adaptability longer than chimps, but conservatives "grow up" before liberals. Older people tend to lose their youthful playfulness and intellectual adaptability. This has been noticed: "Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." --- Matthew 19:14 NIV

Predicting the end of the world as prophecy is different from predicting the end of the world from fear, as the alarmist fundamentalists of AGW do.

I would agree that hoping for the end of the world is different than fearing it.

I am not particularly afraid of terrorists. I do have some anxieties about my country falling into the hands of those who despise intelligence.

Exactly my point

And yet you are the one using “intellectual as a pejorative.

Are you really so ignorant of the liberal reaction to Reagan and Bush, the "cowboys", that spoke up against our enemies and therefore terrified liberals?

Bush and Reagan were never cowboys. They played at cowboys, just as they played at being in charge. Reagan, even in the grip of encroaching Alzheimer's remembered his lines better better than W, who had a tendency to ad lib.

You are the one who brought up fear, and making claims about who is afraid, not me.

I did mention that you could turn liberals more conservative, at least temporarily, by frightening them.

But then you responded:

Question:
Who is more terrified of mankind destroying the planet despite lack of any real evidence and continually false predictions?
Who is more afraid of Christians and conservatives than they are actual threats like terrorism?
Who is so afraid of radical Muslims, communists, and any other tyrants in the world that they dare not speak a word against them, and consider those who do to be "cowboys, dangerous, etc. and therefore to be feared also?
Who is terrified of allowing citizens to arm themselves or even to run their own lives without the elites dictating everything? In other words, afraid of freedom?
Answer to all: Liberals

Hitler had the Jews, Donald Trump has the Mexicans, and you have the “liberals” to hate, fear, and rant against.

I am merely pointing out what an idiotic idea it is that conservatives are fear-based and liberals are not.

I did not, nor did the studies cited, indicate that conservatives are fear based. The reaction from the amygdala, un-moderated by the anterior cingulate cortex, may be either fight, flight, or paralysis. For instance, faced with overwhelming evidence of biological evolution or anthropogenic global warming, conservatives can simply deny and do nothing.

And I don't fear liberals, although they do shock me.

You hate and fear liberals, because they are intellectual and you are, by your own insistence, not.

I pray for them.

It's what conservatives do, requiring little effort and even less of that pernicious intellect.

I, and others like me, live in much less fear than I ever did as a liberal. Since you want to quote Scripture I will also.
"Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me.
The LORD is my light and my salvation-- whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life-- of whom shall I be afraid?
Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good?

(Well, as Jesus found out, the authorities may object strongly if you go around doing good and saying politically and religiously incorrect things, no matter if they are true.)

And pages more. It's not something I would expect atheists, or pantheists, to understand.

Actually, I do understand it. The Bible is like the talus pile of a mine or refinery. It has precious bits, worthless waste, and noxious poison. It requires some intellectual effort to sort it out.

And any predictable reply about "superstition", "fairies and leprechauns; fantasy," in order to mock those who believe and make yourself feel superior is irrelevant. Our belief makes us less afraid, whether you believe it or not.

So your belief makes you superior? Got it!
And yet the fear of reality is the beginning of wisdom. (e.g. Job 28:28, Proverbs 15:33, Proverbs 9:10, Proverbs 1:7, Psalm 111:10, et al.)
Or are you going to argue that your God isn't real? Or perhaps you are going to admit that you are not wise? Not wise is just one small step from not intellectual.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't think that is what is being suggested. However it is being suggested that the conservative mind prefers certainty while the liberal mind is better at handling ambiguity. I think the more aggressive nature of conservatives also explains their affinity for war. And their need for certainty likely explains the persistence of fundamentalism. I would also venture to say it sounds like liberals are probably better adapted for a peaceful modern world.

I would agree, you see much more; "black and white thinking", from those on the far right.

 

[Albion]

Excuse me, but shouldn't you calculate the percentage from the ratio of Christians to non-Christians making predictions?

No. To cite one Christian in a million or more who has predicted the end of the world is exactly what I was dealing with, and to claim that what they said or did is somehow characteristic of Christianity is ridiculous.

I Of course the list is not exhaustive. And it does not list or enumerate the number of those believing such predictions.

Could be, but the claim that was already made was that the hundred or so who were cited was sufficient to demonstrate that their thinking is characteristic of Christianity. It's not., Now, if you were to come in here with a billion more who predicted the end of the world in specific terms, we'd take a look at it.

 

[Gracchus]

No. To cite one Christian in a million or more who has predicted the end of the world is exactly what I was dealing with, and to claim that what they said or did is somehow characteristic of Christianity is ridiculous.
Could be, but the claim that was already made was that the hundred or so who were cited was sufficient to demonstrate that their thinking is characteristic of Christianity. It's not., Now, if you were to come in here with a billion more who predicted the end of the world in specific terms, we'd take a look at it.

Christians believe in the end of the world as a matter of faith. If you don't believe it, can you be a Christian? And Christians have been predicting that the end of the world is near since the time of Jesus. That is all the citation of the list was meant to demonstrate. It was certainly not exhaustive.

 

[Albion]

Christians believe in the end of the world as a matter of faith. If you don't believe it, can you be a Christian? And Christians have been predicting that the end of the world is near since the time of Jesus. That is all the citation of the list was meant to demonstrate. It was certainly not exhaustive.

I see a lot of moving of the goal posts in that response. What you said--and the list you gave--dealt with more or less specific predictions of the world's end.

That did not amount to saying that Christians believe either that there will be an end to this age accompanied by certain developments or that it can be pinpointed in advance.

 

[jmldn2]

I don't think that is what is being suggested. However it is being suggested that the conservative mind prefers certainty while the liberal mind is better at handling ambiguity. I think the more aggressive nature of conservatives also explains their affinity for war. And their need for certainty likely explains the persistence of fundamentalism. I would also venture to say it sounds like liberals are probably better adapted for a peaceful modern world.

I'm a conservative and this description I don't believe fits me.

 

[Albion]

I'm a conservative and this description I don't believe fits me.

I can't imagine why it would. That post shows no understanding of the intellectual underpinnings of either Liberalism or Conservatism.

Even the history is wrong. The USA entered both World Wars, plus the Korean conflict and Vietnam, for instance, under Democrat presidents.

The other statements made in that post might describe some individuals he knows personally and who call themselves by some political title, but that's about all.

 

[Gracchus]

I see a lot of moving of the goal posts in that response. What you said--and the list you gave--dealt with more or less specific predictions of the world's end.

"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." --- Matthew 16:28 NIV

That goalpost seems to have been moved about two thousand years and it is still retreating!

That did not amount to saying that Christians believe either that there will be an end to this age accompanied by certain developments or that it can be pinpointed in advance.

My observation over more than three-score years and two has been that most Christians, just like most other people believe just what they want to believe, just what their social condition demands they believe, no more, no less. They may not approve the auto-da-fe, but they will attend as spectators lest they be forced to attend as the center of attention. They must, perforce, go along to get along. Had they not learned that lesson, Christianity would have been exterminated on the sands of the Roman arena.