The Difference Between Latria and Douleia

[Monk Brendan]

Latria means to worship, that is reverent honor and homage paid to God.

Douleia means service; specifically, the kind of veneration paid by Roman Catholics to saints and angels.

Why do people say that Catholics and Orthodox latria Mary and the saints when we only give her reverence, or veneration, as one would to the patriarch of the family, or an old woman taking care of AIDS patients?

 

[prodromos]

Οι δουλειές δεν τελειώνουν, οι δούλοι τελειώνουν.

 

[Albion]

Latria means to worship, that is reverent honor and homage paid to God.

Douleia means service; specifically, the kind of veneration paid by Roman Catholics to saints and angels.

Why do people say that Catholics and Orthodox latria Mary and the saints when we only give her reverence, or veneration, as one would to the patriarch of the family, or an old woman taking care of AIDS patients?

Because if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...it's a duck. Even if you call it a horse.

In other words, what you said above ("we only give her reverence, or veneration, as one would to the patriarch of the family") isn't true. If it were true, the controversy would not exist and you would not be asking this question.

Does that put the matter into perspective for you?

 

[Monk Brendan]

Because if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...it's a duck. Even if you call it a horse.

In other words, what you said above ("we only give her reverence, or veneration, as one would to the patriarch of the family") isn't true. If it were true, the controversy would not exist and you would not be asking this question.

The difference IS subtle, but the difference is there. Catholics and Orthodox alike are forbidden to worship Mary and the saints. Worship is only supposed to go to God. If such goes on, it is in spite of the teachings of the various Churches. We honor those who (like Mary) have gone before us, pointing the way to Jesus.

So, what you think is a duck is a goose, or a swan, or some other water-fowl, not a duck at all.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Οι δουλειές δεν τελειώνουν, οι δούλοι τελειώνουν.

Huh? When I plugged that into Google translate, I got
The work is not finished , the slaves finish .

This makes no sense. Please, enlighten me.

 

[Albion]

The difference IS subtle, but the difference is there.

It certainly can be the case that there is more than one way to worship. But that doesn't mean that either of them is right and good if the worship is directed at the wrong being. I know that we agree on who it is who deserves our worship.

Catholics and Orthodox alike are forbidden to worship Mary and the saints.

But the practice that they are encouraged to engage in by their own churches is called "worship" by those same churches. That's worth noting, but more important is the fact that what they DO is worship the saints, regardless of what they call it.

 

[prodromos]

Huh? When I plugged that into Google translate, I got
The work is not finished , the slaves finish .

This makes no sense. Please, enlighten me.

The work never ends, the workers do.
Just a little play on words

 

[prodromos]

I think part of the problem is that the kind of worship many Protestants offer to God, or at least what they consider worship, is virtually indistinguishable from what Orthodox and Catholics would term veneration. I've heard on a number of occasions from people who have converted to Orthodoxy, that they never really felt they had truly worshipped God until they experienced the Divine Liturgy.

 

[Albion]

I think part of the problem is that the kind of worship many Protestants offer to God, or at least what they consider worship, is virtually indistinguishable from what Orthodox and Catholics would term veneration. I've heard on a number of occasions from people who have converted to Orthodoxy, that they never really felt they had truly worshipped God until they experienced the Divine Liturgy.

I believe that what these people said "adds up" only in two senses, neither of which makes the claim correct. For one, these folks may have been something like nominal members of some family church in which they grew up and then, finding Orthodoxy, blossomed there just as converts to any other church often feel like they "found 'it' at last." The other possibility is that they think of worship largely in terms of overt acts and sights. Obviously, most Protestant worship is considerably less ceremonial than Orthodox worship.

 

[prodromos]

None of them were nominal Christians, and there is a lot more to Orthodox worship than you suggest.

 

[Albion]

... and there is a lot more to Orthodox worship than you suggest.

What I said wasn't an evaluation of Orthodox worship. I said that these converts to Orthodoxy might have felt that their former churches didn't do much in the way of worship because of the relative absence of elaborate postures, physical acts of devotion, sights, liturgy and etc.