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CoreyD

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I had no question.
@FenderTL5 has the mistaken view that I am responding to you as a Catholic.
So, I was asking him to ask you... Wait. Why am I telling you this. Did you not read it?

Why did you sit and type out all of this L? I did not ask a question.
You don't understand why I made that comment - "This is the 21st century. Not the Dark Ages."

That statement is saying everyone living today knows Church history, unlike those living in the Dark Ages.
Sorry you misunderstood.... and spent all that time typing. Oh dear.
I hope it was just a copy paste. Tell me it was.
I'd feel a lot better.

Well, they are Christians today, and from what I have been able to ascertain about them from before the Restoration, I think they were Christians.
Thank you. that's all I wanted to know.
Yet, they were burned alive, because they disagreed with "other Christians".
I'm glad you do not approve of such conduct. You don't think Jesus approved, do you?
 
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chevyontheriver

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You don't know what you don't know and it shows. You are being schooled and you don't even know it. Your attack on the Didache, by which you hoped you could attack Catholics also attacks the Orthodox because we accept the same Church Fathers and have the same creeds. So while they are not Catholic, and not subject to the sins of a few Catholics, you are attacking them too. You attack their sacramental practice and their creeds, which we share, in your attack on the Catholic Church by attacking the Didache. Not that your attack on the Didache has any legs, but it's like shooting blanks at Catholics and the paper shards of the blanks are also hitting the Orthodox who are standing near us Catholics. Maybe you can play us against each other. Better for you if you convert honestly and either become Catholic or Orthodox.
 
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CoreyD

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So you agree Jesus is the foundation cornerstone. Not Peter. ...and it is on Jesus the Church is built. Not Peter. Isaiah 28:16, 17; Psalm 118:22; Matthew 21:42; Acts 4:11; 1 Corinthians 3:11
...and all the apostles are the foundation. Not Peter, alone. Ephesians 2:19-22; 1 Peter 2:4-9; Revelation 21:14 ?
That's fine.

The thread is about the Didache, and the proof that it demonstrates that the Apostolic fathers deviated from the teachings of Jesus and his apostles.
Would you like to weigh in on this?
 
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CoreyD

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You don't know what you don't know and it shows. You are being schooled and you don't even know it.
I do see the attempts, but I know that's because you don't know that I am already "schooled".

Thanks for that schooling.
It's not entirely accurate, but some bits are, and I agree with those. Thanks.

Maybe you can play us against each other. Better for you if you convert honestly and either become Catholic or Orthodox.
Knowing what you know, I'm not surprised you would say that, considering.
 
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CoreyD

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I wonder if @BNR32FAN would agree with this :

We were looking at 2 Thessalonians 2:4
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

He said...
The second temple was destroyed in 70AD. What temple of God can he possibly sit in and claim to be God? If there is no temple this prophecy can’t have started 2,000 years ago.
How would you answer address that question?
Would you say this is the same temple mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church?
Can you explain your response please.
 
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FenderTL5

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Not only have you lost track of the conversation.
You seem to be trying to hang on to something that is not factual.
Why?
It is indeed a fact that you have repeatedly tried to lay the errors of some post schism Roman Catholics onto those in this thread that are Orthodox.
I'm well aware that not everyone understands the Orthodox Church. That's understandable. However, you seemingly have chosen to remain willfully ignorant about even surface level basics and differences. Your post #140 shows you still don't get it.
You don't know what you don't know and it shows.
chevy is100% correct with that statement and so far, it appears you have no interest in discovering what you don't know.

btw, I said the Liturgist is very generous in sharing his knowledge of the Church and its history, and yet you chose to dismiss it.
That's sad.

As it applies to the thread topic, your hypothesis is false.
 
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The Liturgist

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That statement is saying everyone living today knows Church history, unlike those living in the Dark Ages.
Sorry you misunderstood.... and spent all that time typing. Oh dear.
I hope it was just a copy paste. Tell me it was.
I'd feel a lot better.

Unfortunately I can offer no such consolation - out of respect to fellow members I write almost every word in my posts. The rare exceptions are mostly when I am quoting scripture or the fathers or Patristic canon law, or traditional liturgical texts.

I have been tempted to rickroll certain members who like to base their replies around off-site links, but I shall restrain myself as I suspect the mods would frown on it.
 
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prodromos

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The thread is about the Didache, and the proof that it demonstrates that the Apostolic fathers deviated from the teachings of Jesus and his apostles.
This is the claim you make. I've not seen you demonstrate proof of your claim.
You seem to think the Church has no authority to determine what to do when faced with situations that had not been faced by the Apostles, such as how to baptise people in the desert where water is scarce, or that the Church had no authority to instruct on what were considered beneficial spiritual practices.
 
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ARBITER01

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Our earliest sources of Christianity come from the writings of our early apostles and prophets, and maybe some of the real early church fathers, as long as it is aligns with the early apostles. If a writing is contradictory to NT scripture, then it has nothing to do with Christianity.

There's really nothing more to argue about.
 
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CoreyD

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It is indeed a fact that you have repeatedly tried to lay the errors of some post schism Roman Catholics onto those in this thread that are Orthodox.
That is not a fact, but for some reason you keep repeating it, and I understand why you would not admit that.

I'm well aware that not everyone understands the Orthodox Church. That's understandable. However, you seemingly have chosen to remain willfully ignorant about even surface level basics and differences. Your post #140 shows you still don't get it.
This is why you will not admit it.
You have an agenda, which is to try to paint me as ignorant, and so you won't let go of that agenda.

Whether you are dishonest or ignorant, is not knowledge I possess, because I am not Jesus, but I tried to correct you, and you continued to repeat the same error, so, it can't be anything more than pushing that agenda... which is not right.
It is not fair to me either. It just serves to lift your ego. Is that what you are after?

What I dismissed is your repeated false belief, which you claimed is a fact.

My OP starts this way.
Is there any proof that what is carried on today by the Catholic faith, carries on from the teachings of Jesus and his apostles?

chevyontheriver said:
The ‘early Catholicism’ that appears in the first patristic writings is a huge threat to some Protestants. Which is why the Fathers have to be ignored or even attacked.

I did not there assume that everyone posting on the thread was Catholic, but I knew there were some.
In response to someone, I said...
In fact, every Catholic posting in this thread would be at my throat, telling me how I am teaching heresy.
That did not say everyone posting was Catholic.
However, I did assume @The Liturgist was Catholic. Not from this thread, but a previous conversation. I also assumed the poster was female. Sorry @The Liturgist

I was aware that a couple poster I spoke to on the thread were Catholic, so when you made this retort...
FenderTL5 said:
It is not disproven simply because you say so, and I'll take the understanding of the Church over an internet contrarian every time. ymmv
Without considering that you may not be Catholic, I made a response with the assumption that you were, and with that, you picked it up and ran with it, because here was an opportunity for you to belittle my intelligence, which is the next thing persons do when they do not win an argument.

Despite the fact that I mentioned that I now know that @The Liturgist is not Catholic, and apologized to ... them, You repeatedly falsely accused me of treating ...them like Catholic, even though I showed you - not just told you, but showed you I was not.
You were not interested though, because you needed to keep that, in order for your agenda be carried out.

Hence, you suddenly were ignorant about what I was talking about, as if you lost track of the conversation... because I must be the ignorant individual, who don't know anything.
You know very well I was not asking or talking about the Liturgist not sharing "his knowledge of the Church and its history". You aren't dumb.
Why feign it... except to paint me as dumb?

There is no hypothesis in the OP.
It is a fact that when you line up the Didache with scripture, there are differences.
I mentioned a couple specifically, and you did not even say one word against what I said.
You just came on with...

FenderTL5 said:
Your premise has a fatal flaw. The Didache is the teaching of the 12 Apostles written at the time of the Apostles. What you suggest is that the Apostles themselves deviated from the Apostles' teaching.. with the Apostles' Teaching. It's nonsense. Whether it's unintentional or willful, I don't know, but It's ignorant.

As if your words came down from heaven.
Listen to me. I am God, and I say xyz.
When you have proof, or even a tiny bit of information that supports a clam, come back, and we can talk.
Otherwise...

Peace
 
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CoreyD

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I'm sorry.
I hope i can save you some time in the future, when talking to me.
I research a lot. If you try to type out a whole history to me, I will not read it, because I like to do my own research from sources available,
I do not accept what people say on internet forums, even if they tell me they are scientists.

That's how it is with me, and this is because I know that many sources have information that is not always complete. In other word, sometimes certain details are not included.
So, anytime you want to tell me about some historical fact, just either tell me what the fact is briefly, and tell me to check if... if that is possible for you.

Do you think that can work for you?
 
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CoreyD

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That is a good point.
So what proof do you have that the Didache is from the 12 apostles?
 
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chevyontheriver

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This is the claim you make. I've not seen you demonstrate proof of your claim.
I suspect his 'proof' is that the Didache is just a little bit too Catholic for him and his particular interpretive biases. Rather than calling into question his own interpretive biases it's easier to trash the Church Fathers, starting from the very beginning. What he is seeing and objecting to is called 'early Catholicism' by the theologians, as opposed to some pure Protestantism invented a few hundred years ago. But then they discovered 'early Catholicism' in the New Testament too. Woops! That then became a contrived basis for dating NT books, with the ones manifesting more 'early Catholicism' OBVIOUSLY being dated much later even into the second century. Or not really by an apostle who would never have any 'early Catholicism' in his work. Thus the attempt to maintain the pure interpretation by setting up a canon within the canon of only reliable NT books that didn't smack of Catholicism (or Orthodoxy for that matter).

Early Catholicism (You could probably also call it 'original Orthodoxy') in the NT isn't a surprise at all. But it distresses those who are in revolt from original Christianity.
 
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CoreyD

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Thank you very much.
However, I believe that some persons here have sincere interests, so I like to give everyone a chance to air their views.

Evidently, some seem to think that it is okay to change Jesus' and the apostles' teachings, as though they are not set there with reason.
They seem to think that the scriptures are not proof enough that the Didache is not a deviation from Jesus' and the apostles' teachings.

If we cannot use the scriptures as the basis, for truth, then how will we heed Jesus' and the apostles' warnings to beware of false prophets?
Paul even said, if an angel were to declare another gospel, don't even listen to him.
How much more so, men.

I agree with you though, that there is no argument.
 
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The Liturgist

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That would work very well for me, but I would want to know what sources you consulted, and depending on them, I might want to refer you to one of the scholarly works I used so you can understand where I am coming from.

Specifically there are about five Patristic books and three more recent books that I use for reference purposes, in addition to more specialized works, but if you had access to even two or three of those books I believe you would be able to understand my point of view, without having to agree with it.

By the way its against the rules of CF.com to try to proselytize someone to your denomination, so I want to assure you I have no interest in that - I regard you as a fellow Nicene Christian. But I think it would be ideal if I didn’t have to explain things to you, but could instead just summarize, let you research it, but also know where you researched it, and if I think you missed out on salient details, I would want to be able to suggest a work to you, that you could chose to look at or not look at, but in looking at it you would either be able to see that I had made a mistake and inform me of it, or else you would be able to understand, even if you rejected, my perspective.

I do also have a very large library of public domain ebooks which I can share with you, which are mostly by scholarly writers who try to remain doctrinally neutral.

God bless you,
 
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The Liturgist

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That’s true, and the Didache is one of the writings of the Apostles and Early Church Fathers, and it is not contradictory to the New Testament in any respect.

If you want to see something that is clearly contradictory, from the same time period, look at the Tripartite Tractate or the Epistle of Barnabas, which are very different but equally problematic. Or the Manichaen Protoevangelion of Thomas, not to be confused with the sayings gospel known as The Gospel of Thomas, which I think is clearly corrupt, but insofar as much of what it says matches the synoptics, I think it was a list of sayings of our Lord used in some remote part of the Church as a stop gap due to the shortage of Gospel Books, especially in languages other than Greek, but it was corrupted by one of the heretical sects.
 
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ARBITER01

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That’s true, and the Didache is one of the writings of the Apostles and Early Church Fathers, and it is not contradictory to the New Testament in any respect.

I know you and others would like to have us think that, but it bears no resemblance to any of the apostles writings. To me, from what I know of it, it's just an early church doctrine describing church type membership activities.
 
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CoreyD

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Actually, the proof is in the Bible, and the Didache verifies that it is not legit.
Baptism is one of the main proofs
Why don't you address that, rather than appeal to interpretation?
Strong's Greek: 907. βαπτίζω (baptizó) -- to dip, sink
Was baptism not by immersion? Matthew 3:16, 17; John 3:23 Was there not a basis for that? Romans 6:4-6; Colossians 2:12

You are obviously emotional about this.
So far, you have not shown why persons should accept the Didache.
You are aware Jesus spoke about the hypocritical fasting, are you? Luke 18:9-14
...I fast twice a week;...

Chapter Eight
The hypocrites fast on Mondays and Thursdays, but the righteous fast Wednesdays and Fridays?

What do you have to say about that.
 
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CoreyD

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I asked this before, and you went away.
Can you answer it now.
Where does the scriptures command Effusion?
 
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prodromos

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That is a good point.
So what proof do you have that the Didache is from the 12 apostles?
It was widely accepted as authoritive in the early Church
 
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