Does anyone here ever think about this subject ? Do people here have opinions about who this "Babylon" is ? This is a subject on which I have done some research, but I would like to know the opinions of people here before saying anything about it.
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The Destruction of Babylon
- Thread starter JHM
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@ fallenstar01 : You are wrong, and I think I can prove that to most people's satisfaction; but I would like further opinions on the matter first.
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- Oct 4, 2010
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hi jhm,
I also find some corrolaries between Babylon and the catholic organization, although I'm always open to consider other possibilities.
God bless you
In Christ, Ted
I also find some corrolaries between Babylon and the catholic organization, although I'm always open to consider other possibilities.
God bless you
In Christ, Ted
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I believe the Bible says that :
Matthew 16 : 13 - 20 (Jerusalem Bible)
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi he put this question to his deciples, 'Who do people say the Son of Man is ?' And they said, 'Some say he is John the Baptist , some Elijah , and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets' 'But you ,' he said 'who do you say I am ?' Then Simon Peter spoke up , 'You are the Christ ,' he said 'the Son of the living God '. Jesus replied , 'Simon son of Jonah , you are a happy man ! Because it was not flesh and blood that revealed this to you but my Father in heaven . So now I say to you : You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church . And the gates of the underworld can never hold out against it . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven : whatever you bind on earth shall be considered bound in heaven ; and whatever you loose on earth shall be considered loose in heaven .' Then he gave the disciples strict orders not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
Did not Christ say that Peter was the rock on which he would found "HIS CHURCH" ? And that whatever Peter bound on earth would be bound in heaven ? Since the Catholic Church made Peter the first Pope, is the Catholic Church not "Christ's Church" ?
Does the Catholic Church fit the following descriptions ?
It is the "Beast" who is an eighth that is one of the seven who in combination with the ten "Horns" will destroy the "Harlot" by fire.
Revelation 17 16-18 (Revised Standard Version)
"And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose" ... "And the woman which you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth."
So is it Rome or the Catholic Churchs scattered all over the world that are going to get burned ?
NOTE ALSO : This isn't an ordinary fire we are talking about here :
Revelation 18 7 (New International Version)
(of Babylon) "... in her heart she boasts, ‘I sit as a queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.
Revelation 18 8 (King James Version)
"Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death and mourning and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire ..."
Isaiah 47 1 "Come and sit down in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon; sit on the ground without a throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans !"
Isaiah 47 14 (Revised Standard Version)
Behold they are like stubble, the fire consumes them; they cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame. No coal for warming oneself is this, no fire to sit before!
And in the middle of all this, "Babylon" is to be struck by the greatest earthquake since man has been on the earth :
Revelation 16 : 18-19 (Revised Standard Version)
"And there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as had never been since men were on the earth, so great was that earthquake, The great city was split into three parts, ..."
Are you saying that Rome is going to be struck by an earthquake that will split it in three parts ? That wouldn't take all that much of an earthquake. Or are you saying that every Catholic Church on earth will be split in three parts by the earthquake ? THAT would take quite an earthquake.
And as a result of the earthquake parts of "Babylon" will sink below sealevel :
Jeremiah 51 : 41-42 (Jerusalem Bible)
"An elegy for Babylon - What! Is she captured and conquered, the admiration of all the world? What! Babylon become a thing of horror throughout the nations? The sea has risen over Babylon, she sinks under its boisterous waves
Again is that talking about "Rome" ? or is that talking about the Catholic Churchs ? Catholic Churchs are going to sink below sealevel ?
Isaiah 13 19 (Jerusalem Bible)
"Babylon that pearl of kingdoms"
Isaiah 47 5 (New International Version)
"Queen of kingdoms"
Isaiah 47 5 (Jerusalem Bible)
"Sovereign lady of the kingdoms"
Revelation 17 1 (Jerusalem Bible)
"... the great prostitute who rules enthroned beside abundant waters, ..."
Revelation 17 16-18 (Revised Standard Version)
"...the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth ... "
Are you trying to tell me that Rome and the Catholic Church best fit those descriptions ? What dominion over Communist and Arab countries did the Catholic Church have ?
Revelation 18 9-10 (Revised Standard Version)
"And the kings of the earth, who committed fornication and were wanton with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning; they will stand far off, ... and say ‘Alas! Alas! Thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgement come.
Revelation 18 11 (Darby Translation)
"And the merchants of the earth weep and grieve over her, since no one buys their lading (or Merchandise) anymore,"
NOTE : There follows in verses 12 and 13 a list of every luxury known to the ancients.
Revelation 18 15-17 (Revised Standard Version)
"The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, ... weeping and mourning aloud, ‘Alas, alas, for the great city ... bedecked with gold, with jewels, and pearls! ... In one hour all this wealth has been laid waste."
Revelation 18 17-19 (Revised Standard Version)
"And all shipmasters ... and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, ‘What city was like the great city?’ ... ‘Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! In one hour she has been laid waste."
Not an ordinary fire remember ? Those who survive to mourne all STAND FAR OFF.
Are you trying to tell me that all the world's merchants will weep because no-one buys their merchandise anymore when the Catholic Church is destroyed ? I don't think that the Catholic Church is the world's major consumer of luxuries.
Are you also trying to tell me that someone is going to burn down every Catholic Church in the world in one hour ?
Note : The Book of Isaiah chapter 34 deals with the destruction of "Edom" which was part of the Babylonian empire; and gives a list of creatures that will live in the remnants of the land as well as describing conditions there.
Isaiah 34 : (Jerusalem Bible)
Subtitle The end of Edom [sup]a[/sup]
See Footnote 34 a
34 a : This apocalyptic poem on the end of Edom belongs to the cycle of anti-Babylonian compositions. It is seemingly later than ch. 40-46 on which the author draws. It perhaps forms a whole with ch. 35.
Isaiah 34 : 8-10 (Revised Standard Version)
For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of recompense for the cause of Zion. And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into brimstone; her land shall become burning pitch. Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up forever. From gerneration to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
Edom was part of the Babylonian Empire. Now if the Catholic Church is the "Babylon" that is to be destroyed, then you must believe that the smoke of the burning churchs shall go up "FOREVER". Neat trick that. And you must also believe that the sites of the burned down churchs that don't sink underwater shall be inhabited by ostriches, owls, dragons, satyrs, and Lilith.
I think there is a much better interpretation of the whole Babylon issue.
Matthew 16 : 13 - 20 (Jerusalem Bible)
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi he put this question to his deciples, 'Who do people say the Son of Man is ?' And they said, 'Some say he is John the Baptist , some Elijah , and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets' 'But you ,' he said 'who do you say I am ?' Then Simon Peter spoke up , 'You are the Christ ,' he said 'the Son of the living God '. Jesus replied , 'Simon son of Jonah , you are a happy man ! Because it was not flesh and blood that revealed this to you but my Father in heaven . So now I say to you : You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church . And the gates of the underworld can never hold out against it . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven : whatever you bind on earth shall be considered bound in heaven ; and whatever you loose on earth shall be considered loose in heaven .' Then he gave the disciples strict orders not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
Did not Christ say that Peter was the rock on which he would found "HIS CHURCH" ? And that whatever Peter bound on earth would be bound in heaven ? Since the Catholic Church made Peter the first Pope, is the Catholic Church not "Christ's Church" ?
Does the Catholic Church fit the following descriptions ?
It is the "Beast" who is an eighth that is one of the seven who in combination with the ten "Horns" will destroy the "Harlot" by fire.
Revelation 17 16-18 (Revised Standard Version)
"And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose" ... "And the woman which you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth."
So is it Rome or the Catholic Churchs scattered all over the world that are going to get burned ?
NOTE ALSO : This isn't an ordinary fire we are talking about here :
Revelation 18 7 (New International Version)
(of Babylon) "... in her heart she boasts, ‘I sit as a queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.
Revelation 18 8 (King James Version)
"Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death and mourning and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire ..."
Isaiah 47 1 "Come and sit down in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon; sit on the ground without a throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans !"
Isaiah 47 14 (Revised Standard Version)
Behold they are like stubble, the fire consumes them; they cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame. No coal for warming oneself is this, no fire to sit before!
And in the middle of all this, "Babylon" is to be struck by the greatest earthquake since man has been on the earth :
Revelation 16 : 18-19 (Revised Standard Version)
"And there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as had never been since men were on the earth, so great was that earthquake, The great city was split into three parts, ..."
Are you saying that Rome is going to be struck by an earthquake that will split it in three parts ? That wouldn't take all that much of an earthquake. Or are you saying that every Catholic Church on earth will be split in three parts by the earthquake ? THAT would take quite an earthquake.
And as a result of the earthquake parts of "Babylon" will sink below sealevel :
Jeremiah 51 : 41-42 (Jerusalem Bible)
"An elegy for Babylon - What! Is she captured and conquered, the admiration of all the world? What! Babylon become a thing of horror throughout the nations? The sea has risen over Babylon, she sinks under its boisterous waves
Again is that talking about "Rome" ? or is that talking about the Catholic Churchs ? Catholic Churchs are going to sink below sealevel ?
Isaiah 13 19 (Jerusalem Bible)
"Babylon that pearl of kingdoms"
Isaiah 47 5 (New International Version)
"Queen of kingdoms"
Isaiah 47 5 (Jerusalem Bible)
"Sovereign lady of the kingdoms"
Revelation 17 1 (Jerusalem Bible)
"... the great prostitute who rules enthroned beside abundant waters, ..."
Revelation 17 16-18 (Revised Standard Version)
"...the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth ... "
Are you trying to tell me that Rome and the Catholic Church best fit those descriptions ? What dominion over Communist and Arab countries did the Catholic Church have ?
Revelation 18 9-10 (Revised Standard Version)
"And the kings of the earth, who committed fornication and were wanton with her, will weep and wail over her when they see the smoke of her burning; they will stand far off, ... and say ‘Alas! Alas! Thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgement come.
Revelation 18 11 (Darby Translation)
"And the merchants of the earth weep and grieve over her, since no one buys their lading (or Merchandise) anymore,"
NOTE : There follows in verses 12 and 13 a list of every luxury known to the ancients.
Revelation 18 15-17 (Revised Standard Version)
"The merchants of these wares, who gained wealth from her, will stand far off, ... weeping and mourning aloud, ‘Alas, alas, for the great city ... bedecked with gold, with jewels, and pearls! ... In one hour all this wealth has been laid waste."
Revelation 18 17-19 (Revised Standard Version)
"And all shipmasters ... and all whose trade is on the sea, stood far off and cried out as they saw the smoke of her burning, ‘What city was like the great city?’ ... ‘Alas, alas, for the great city where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth! In one hour she has been laid waste."
Not an ordinary fire remember ? Those who survive to mourne all STAND FAR OFF.
Are you trying to tell me that all the world's merchants will weep because no-one buys their merchandise anymore when the Catholic Church is destroyed ? I don't think that the Catholic Church is the world's major consumer of luxuries.
Are you also trying to tell me that someone is going to burn down every Catholic Church in the world in one hour ?
Note : The Book of Isaiah chapter 34 deals with the destruction of "Edom" which was part of the Babylonian empire; and gives a list of creatures that will live in the remnants of the land as well as describing conditions there.
Isaiah 34 : (Jerusalem Bible)
Subtitle The end of Edom [sup]a[/sup]
See Footnote 34 a
34 a : This apocalyptic poem on the end of Edom belongs to the cycle of anti-Babylonian compositions. It is seemingly later than ch. 40-46 on which the author draws. It perhaps forms a whole with ch. 35.
Isaiah 34 : 8-10 (Revised Standard Version)
For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of recompense for the cause of Zion. And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into brimstone; her land shall become burning pitch. Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up forever. From gerneration to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
Edom was part of the Babylonian Empire. Now if the Catholic Church is the "Babylon" that is to be destroyed, then you must believe that the smoke of the burning churchs shall go up "FOREVER". Neat trick that. And you must also believe that the sites of the burned down churchs that don't sink underwater shall be inhabited by ostriches, owls, dragons, satyrs, and Lilith.
I think there is a much better interpretation of the whole Babylon issue.
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- Mar 24, 2011
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Scripture tells us who it is:
Revelation 17:18
The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
The great city is Rome, which was the greatest city on Earth at the time, and which is confirmed by this verse:
Revelation 17:9
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
Rome is famously built upon seven hills. This also matches the prophecy of daniel concerning the revived roman empire. Metaphorically, women symbolize churches in scripture, and the church in Rome, which still is, is the catholic church. Therefore the harlot of babylon is the Catholic church.
Even the catholic encyclopedia argues Rome is babylon:
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles
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I already posted a response about "Rome", It isn't Rome. As for a mind with "Wisdom" I think I qualify, - I posted my IQ sheet in the "Evolution ... Say It Isn't So" thread, and my "Reading Comprehension" has been tested at the 99.997 percentile - or 3 in 100,000 people. Not trying to brag, just trying to get people to take this seriously.
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- Mar 24, 2011
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We receive wisdom from God, it doesn't matter how high your IQ is..people with much higher iqs have died denying Jesus Christ. Because you're a brother in Christ, I take you seriously, but if you're just going to dismiss the evidence and post your iq test then we don't have anything to talk about.
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MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH; (Revelation 17:5) clearly represents our economic system.
Rev. 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev. 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
When we look at the consequence of her destruction there can be no doubt.
Rev. 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev. 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev. 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev. 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev. 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
Rev. 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev. 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
When we look at the consequence of her destruction there can be no doubt.
Rev. 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev. 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev. 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev. 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev. 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
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If anyone here wants me to send them my analysis of the whole of the "Babylonian" prophesies, then PM me an email address to send them to. I have a 4 page "Short Form" version, a 38 page "Intermediate" version; and also my whole "Scripture Studies Docuent" version which runs over 130 pages.
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Steve Petersen
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Familiar with the theory. First heard it from Joseph Good of Hatikva Ministries.
Don't necessarily buy it though.
Something to tantalize the credulous: there is a town on Long Island called West Babylon.
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Bear in mind that when the Bible was written the concept of "Country" was practically non existant. Anyway, it fits the scriptures far better than anything else. I reiterate, if anyone wants a copy of my documents on the subject, PM me an email address to send them to.
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