The Depth of Meaning

[LLC3GUYS]

Having grown up in various lands and cultures, I've always been familiar with the difficulties in the translation of words and ideas. The greatest challenge is when there can be no word-for-word or idea-for-idea translation. Often a paragraph is needed to translate the degree of depth and /or application of just one words true meaning. Some don't translate at all without possessing a cultural, historical, and sociological understanding first. Here is one that has changed my life. Since the implied depth, and now definition, of the word "believe" has changed since originally translated, do you "believe" in Him or "know" Him, and do you know the difference?

 

[Dad Ernie]

Just my 2c.

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.



John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[FreeinChrist]

"believe" - Greek word pisteuo - means faith, belief, to have mental persuasion of, to give credit to, have confidence of, to believe or to be of the opinion of.

With Greek, you need to also look at the prepositions and what word follows. And the voice, mood, and tense of the the word.

I think you would do better with this thread if you explain how you understand the words believe and know and why you understand them that way.

 

[LLC3GUYS]

Just my 2c.

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.



John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

You're making my point for me.

 

[LLC3GUYS]

"believe" - Greek word pisteuo - means faith, belief, to have mental persuasion of, to give credit to, have confidence of, to believe or to be of the opinion of.

With Greek, you need to also look at the prepositions and what word follows. And the voice, mood, and tense of the the word.

I think you would do better with this thread if you explain how you understand the words believe and know and why you understand them that way.

I'm wanting to see what the individual's relationship with Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit has impressed upon their hearts. Most people (ergo: most Christians) do not understand syntax, and new or old language derivations, and will not follow or discern such a debate with more than "feeling". I,m asking everyone to reach a little deeper than that, anyway. The reality of God must be personally known. Otherwise, where is the actual "personal" in the relationship, beyond lip service?

 

[MbiaJc]

I'm wanting to see what the individual's relationship with Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit has impressed upon their hearts. Most people (ergo: most Christians) do not understand syntax, and new or old language derivations, and will not follow or discern such a debate with more than "feeling". I,m asking everyone to reach a little deeper than that, anyway. The reality of God must be personally known. Otherwise, where is the actual "personal" in the relationship, beyond lip service?

 

[ps139]

I think you have an excellent point. Christ says there will be many on judgement who cry "Lord, Lord!" and who honored Him with their lips, and perhaps we can add "intellectual assent," but they did not truly know him, they did not bear good fruits, and Christ will say "I never knew you." I pray I can truly KNOW Christ each and every day, and that people can know I am a Christian by what I do, not only by what I say or what I believe.

 

[LLC3GUYS]

The lack of posts disappoints me, but doesn't surprise me. I'm too aware of the crisis in the Church. We are now guilty of raising, and admitting, "Christians" by heritage (their parents were) and "belief" (ideology), not by the personal meeting between themselves and God. It can be seen, in gross abundance, everywhere on this site, in all forums. "Knowing" Him will always mean, at the very least, knowing Him better than you know your best friend, in truth and reality, not as an idea or belief. Any takers?

 

[CaDan]

The lack of posts disappoints me, but doesn't surprise me. I'm too aware of the crisis in the Church. We are now guilty of raising, and admitting, "Christians" by heritage (their parents were) and "belief" (ideology), not by the personal meeting between themselves and God. It can be seen, in gross abundance, everywhere on this site, in all forums. "Knowing" Him will always mean, at the very least, knowing Him better than you know your best friend, in truth and reality, not as an idea or belief. Any takers?

So there are tares amongst the wheat. Shall we rip them up and cast them out?

 

[Living Stone]

Having grown up in various lands and cultures, I've always been familiar with the difficulties in the translation of words and ideas. The greatest challenge is when there can be no word-for-word or idea-for-idea translation. Often a paragraph is needed to translate the degree of depth and /or application of just one words true meaning. Some don't translate at all without possessing a cultural, historical, and sociological understanding first. Here is one that has changed my life. Since the implied depth, and now definition, of the word "believe" has changed since originally translated, do you "believe" in Him or "know" Him, and do you know the difference?

Which is the exact reason why we all need to read and study the WHOLE bible.

One passage may have been poorly rendered or whatever, but when I see all other scripture on the matter, then the context of the whole will surely shed light on the first.