The Democratic Safe House

[A2SG]

As a semi-trained historian, I absolutely agree that this election is much more reminiscent of 1964/1968. I truly believe there will be blood in the streets of Cleveland come July.

But Trump is Reagan. An intellectual piker with great PR skills and a case of Narcisistic Personality Disorder who believes that, because he's incredibly charming, he is capable of being President of the United States of America.

The only real difference is that Trump probably doesn't have Alzheimer's Disease.

Actually, the more significant difference is that Reagan was likable. You could disagree with every word out of his mouth, but you can't deny he was likable and had charisma.

Trump's not likable, and the only charisma he has is that he's rich.

-- A2SG, and that's why I'm not as worried about Trump as I was about Reagan back in the day.....

 

[revanneosl]

He's not likable to you nor to me, but he is likable to (and I'm about to use a term here that is not allowed in any discussion of American society) the labor class. Please, please don't take offense. We have an enormous dislike, in the United States, of discussing social class outside of the narrow window of wealth. But Mr. Trump is evincing, through his rhetoric, many class signifiers which resonate deeply with the labor class, notwithstanding the fact that he has a lot of money.

This is why the establishment (which is to say ruling class and gentry class) segment of the Republican Party despises him, while the rank-and-file (which is to say labor class) segment keep voting for him.

<sweeps her Marxist historical analysis hat in a deep bow>

Not talking to you specifically AS2G (and someday you're going to have to tell me what AS2G stands for) but to any who might be watching this conversation: if you've never thought about the difference between / intersection of social class and family wealth, this podcast would be an awesome way to spend any available hour.

 

[A2SG]

He's not likable to you nor to me, but he is likable to (and I'm about to use a term here that is not allowed in any discussion of American society) the labor class. Please, please don't take offense. We have an enormous dislike, in the United States, of discussing social class outside of the narrow window of wealth. But Mr. Trump is evincing, through his rhetoric, many class signifiers which resonate deeply with the labor class, notwithstanding the fact that he has a lot of money.

This is why the establishment (which is to say ruling class and gentry class) segment of the Republican Party despises him, while the rank-and-file (which is to say labor class) segment keep voting for him.

<sweeps her Marxist historical analysis hat in a deep bow>

I don't know if Trump supporters are so much "working class" as simply disgruntled. I think they're conflating "rich" with "capable" and assume, for some bizarre, unknowable reason, that Trump will make America great again simply because he's rich.

But the main reason I don't think it's a "working class" thing is that working class doesn't mean dumb, and to think Trump's capable of doing anything close to what he says is monumentally and astronomically dumb.

But I still maintain that, whatever you think of his policies and such, Reagan was a genuinely and sincerely likable guy. He had an easy-going charm that Trump simply does not have, not on any level.

Not talking to you specifically AS2G (and someday you're going to have to tell me what AS2G stands for) but to any who might be watching this conversation: if you've never thought about the difference between / intersection of social class and family wealth, this podcast would be an awesome way to spend any available hour.

First, it's A2SG (the 2 comes before the S), and it stands for Arthur Two Sheds Gumby. One of the first places on the internet I frequented was a Monty Python board, and I combined two Python characters to make my name, Arthur Two Sheds Jackson and Mr. Gumby. Mostly because I have two sheds and my brain hurts.

-- A2SG, as to why I do my sigs this way, I just like doing it.....

 

[revanneosl]

Dude I have to thank you so much for clearing up your screen name for me. I have been trying to figure it out for ages now, and have totally failed, but I'm an enormous Python fan.

I absolutely don't think that membership in the labor class = dumb. I was born into the middle/gentry class, but I married a man from the labor class and he's spent the last quarter century patiently helping me understand the difference between how much money one makes vs. the cultural/social signifiers of class. I don't think that Trump's followers are dumb at all. I think that they've been largely ignored by politicians for a long, long time, and are understandably responding to somebody who indicates (sincerely or insincerely) that he resonates to their concerns.

 

[A2SG]

Dude I have to thank you so much for clearing up your screen name for me. I have been trying to figure it out for ages now, and have totally failed, but I'm an enormous Python fan.

Glad to help. I used to have a cartoon Mr Gumby as an avatar, but I like to change it up every now and then, usually based on whatever I'm writing at the moment. Currently, I'm working on a story about spiritualists and seances in the 1920s.

I absolutely don't think that membership in the labor class = dumb. I was born into the middle/gentry class, but I married a man from the labor class and he's spent the last quarter century patiently helping me understand the difference between how much money one makes vs. the cultural/social signifiers of class. I don't think that Trump's followers are dumb at all. I think that they've been largely ignored by politicians for a long, long time, and are understandably responding to somebody who indicates (sincerely or insincerely) that he resonates to their concerns.

I've been working class all my life (Southie Irish), and I can easily see through Trump's bovine scat, as can many people I know from a similar background, so it clearly isn't class. Then again, I do hail from Massachusetts, so that might be a factor.

But does Trump really seem like he resonates to anyone's concerns at all? Even insincerely? I get the impression he can't see beyond his own ego, and I don't think I'm alone in that. While his supporters may be vocal, I still don't believe they're anywhere near as large as Trump -- and the media -- likes to portray them.

-- A2SG, at least, I sincerely hope so....

 

[Deviant Writer]

I've been working class all my life (Southie Irish), and I can easily see through Trump's bovine scat, as can many people I know from a similar background, so it clearly isn't class.

Right, for me, I dislike him because because he came out as a birther, promised to ban all Muslims from entering the US (but of course wouldn't ban whites or Christians when they shoot up black churches or medical clinics), and things like that. He obviously doesn't respond well to criticism, as Megyn Kelly knows by now.

His popularity isn't that confusing. He's said to be "not that conservative" but that's kind of how the story goes now. Conservatives talk about how they want a "small government type" and then months past and Mitt Romney is the front runner and not Gary Johnson. He gained traction by talking smack against Muslims and Mexicans. That's where much of his popularity comes from; the white Republicans that dislike them. That's why he's not going to say anything when a white guy gets up in his rally and calls Obama a Muslim and asks how to get rid of them all.

 

[One Voice Among Many1]

I must say that it is nice to come to a safe place where Democrats / liberals can talk without being targeted.

 

[mark46]

I knew Ronald Reagan, and you're no Ronald Reagan.

for folks that might not remember

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senator,_you're_no_Jack_Kennedy

 

[DaisyDay]

Trump's appeal is to nationalism, and an appeal to blame outsiders for the pain that we feel. There are many Democrats who might vote for Trump. The Middle Class have the same wages as in the 70's. Trump promises them change. He blames immigrants. He blames trade deals. There are many Democrats who now oppose NAFTA and other trade deal. Trump wants Europeans and Asians to pay much more for their defense. Trump doesn't want to use US troops to defend foreigners. All this has appeal.

We should be very careful. There are indeed lots of old white men who have voted for Democrats in the past, who now might vote for Trump. And, many of these men are in states like PA that have been reliably Democratic.

Hillary is not particularly charasmatic either and there is more than a little misogyny working against her.

 

[cow451]

Hillary is not particularly charasmatic either and there is more than a little misogyny working against her.

True, she has a checkered political history and is a poor campaigner.

 

[mark46]

True, she has a checkered political history and is a poor campaigner.

Congrats to Clinton on her really great campaign and victory in New York.

 

[Arcangl86]

Something's up. Most of the precincts are done and not even 2 million democratic votes in a state with 20 million people?

 

[One Voice Among Many1]

So.... any personal thoughts on Harriet Tubman replacing Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill?

 

[stamperben]

So.... any personal thoughts on Harriet Tubman replacing Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill?

I say do it, but it won't be for another 15 years, and much could change in that time. Unless people actually VOTE!

 

[mark46]

I say do it, but it won't be for another 15 years, and much could change in that time. Unless people actually VOTE!

 

[Willtor]

Andrew Jackson is... controversial (to put it nicely). Harriet Tubman? Quite the opposite. This is a good idea.

 

[A2SG]

I say do it, but it won't be for another 15 years, and much could change in that time. Unless people actually VOTE!

God, if people voted, we might get Boaty McBoatface on the $5 next!

-- A2SG, as we sip Hitlerwasright Cola....

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Huh... I was unaware public restrooms were a "transgender issue."

 

[GoldenBoy89]

So.... any personal thoughts on Harriet Tubman replacing Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill?

I think it's great.

Even better if it's driving some people up a wall.

 

[Deviant Writer]

I think it's great.

Even better if it's driving some people up a wall.

Do it better.

1. Replace every single white politician with a "social justice warrior" whether its an abolitionist, suffragist, or Civil Rights leader from the mid 20th century.

2. Grab some popcorn.

3. Grab some Mountain Dew Black Label

4. Try not to enjoy the tears too much.

5. TRY NOT TO!