The definition of EMBEDDED AGE

[Psudopod]

It's not oxymoronic, just deceptive.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

And yet you don't see history without age oxymoronic? Or do you?

Of course I do. Age is the amount of time that something has existed and its history is what has happened to it during that time. The earth shows a very complex history that has unfolded during its 4.5 billion years of existence. (Unless the appearance of history was created by an omnipotent and deceptive diety of course)

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

It's not oxymoronic, just deceptive.

To say it is not deceptive is oxymoronic.

 

[AV1611VET]

But the Omphalos supporters don't claim that what we see is real history, they say this planet has the appearance of history, which is entirely possible.

Adam and Eve with navels is only the "appearance of history"?

Okay --- let's discuss Last Thursdayism then?

You have no problem with God embedding a false 4.57 billion-year history, but embedding real age without a history gives you fits?

I'm starting to notice a pattern here. As long as it's God embedding something false, you're okay with it. But should He embed something real, then He's a "deceiver."

Hmmm.

 

[AV1611VET]

Of course I do. Age is the amount of time that something has existed and its history is what has happened to it during that time. The earth shows a very complex history that has unfolded during its 4.5 billion years of existence. (Unless the appearance of history was created by an omnipotent and deceptive diety of course)

You keep bringing this around to the earth as a whole.

Okay, let's just discuss Adam for Occam's sake.

Was Adam 30 years old [or thereabouts] the day he was created?

 

[Tomk80]

Adam and Eve with navels is only the "appearance of history"?

Okay --- let's discuss Last Thursdayism then?

You have no problem with God embedding a false 4.57 billion-year history, but embedding real age without a history gives you fits?

I'm starting to notice a pattern here. As long as it's God embedding something false, you're okay with it. But should He embed something real, then He's a "deceiver."

Hmmm.

I'm starting to notice a distinct pattern in your distorting the views of those who you discuss with.

 

[Tomk80]

You keep bringing this around to the earth as a whole.

Okay, let's just discuss Adam for Occam's sake.

Was Adam 30 years old [or thereabouts] the day he was created?

No.

(Come on AV, we've gone over this multiple times before. It's not like we haven't answered these questions earlier).

 

[AV1611VET]

No.

(Come on AV, we've gone over this multiple times before. It's not like we haven't answered these questions earlier).

Then are you telling me, Tom, that back then, it was possible for a one-day-old man to marry a one-day-old woman and have children?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm starting to notice a distinct pattern in your distorting the views of those who you discuss with.

I just find it interesting that you guys have no problem with understanding (although not agreeing with) the concepts of Omphalos and Last Thursdayism; yet the one concept that involves something real, Embedded Age, doesn't make sense.

 

[Psudopod]

I'm starting to notice a pattern here. As long as it's God embedding something false, you're okay with it. But should He embed something real, then He's a "deceiver."

We're not okay with it. And embedding a false anything is deceptive. You are misunderstanding the problem we have.

Omphalos - deceptive, but impossible to tell if it happened. God could have created a fake 13.7 billion year history, and we would never know.

Embedded age - doesn't account for the 13.7 billion years of history that we see, so there is no reason to accept that as a valid description of reality.

 

[Psudopod]

I just find it interesting that you guys have no problem with understanding (although not agreeing with) the concepts of Omphalos and Last Thursdayism; but the one concept that involves something real, Embedded Age, doesn't make sense to you guys.

Makes perfect sense, just doesn't fit with reality.

I know, I know, God's creation can take a hike, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

Embedded age - doesn't account for the 13.7 billion years of history that we see, so there is no reason to accept that as a valid description of reality.

I'm talking "age" here --- not "history."

Again --- Embedded Age = Maturity without history.

Can God --- right now --- create a marble ex nihilo that is 40 years old?

 

[AV1611VET]

I know, I know, God's creation can take a hike, right?

Wrong.

 

[milkyway]

I'm talking "age" here --- not "history."

Again --- Embedded Age = Maturity without history.

Can God --- right now --- create a marble ex nihilo that is 40 years old?

No.

 

[AV1611VET]

No.

Check your reps --- that was refreshing. You caught me off-guard with that.

 

[Tomk80]

Then are you telling me, Tom, that back then, it was possible for a one-day-old man to marry a one-day-old woman and have children?

I don't know whether they were one day old when they had children. Well, I don't think they existed anyway, but going from the premise that they did. Nowhere from the bible can we deduce how old they were when they got their first child.

They may have looked as if they were thirty years old, but they weren't. They were one day old. That is how long they were in existence, that is how old they were. Age = time in existence.

 

[Tomk80]

I just find it interesting that you guys have no problem with understanding (although not agreeing with) the concepts of Omphalos and Last Thursdayism; yet the one concept that involves something real, Embedded Age, doesn't make sense.

Because as a concept it is nonsense.

 

[Tomk80]

I'm talking "age" here --- not "history."

Again --- Embedded Age = Maturity without history.

Yes, that is not what we see. When looking at the earth and universe, we clearly see a history.

Besides, maturity implies history and age = time in existence. Which makes your concept logically impossible also.

Can God --- right now --- create a marble ex nihilo that is 40 years old?

No, the whole concept of embedded age is nonsense. Pure, unadulterated nonsense.

 

[Psudopod]

I'm talking "age" here --- not "history."

Again --- Embedded Age = Maturity without history.

Can God --- right now --- create a marble ex nihilo that is 40 years old?

I'm quite willing to accept that God can create a man with an adult body on day one. However, how would you know he was 30 years old? If there is anything that puts a figure on that age, then that's history. There's no way you can have something with a defined age that doesn't have a history. A man who has lived for 30 years is going to look different to one who has lived for a day but is an adult.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I'm talking "age" here --- not "history."

Again --- Embedded Age = Maturity without history.

Can God --- right now --- create a marble ex nihilo that is 40 years old?

Nope; not a chance.