The decline of hell doctrine and church attendance

[Saint Steven]

First, I would suggest to you that when we are in Heaven (when we die, prior to the passing away of this universe and the Eternal State) we will have a far greater understanding of God's holiness and sin, and will not be trying to make excuses for people that have, of their own decision—rejected God.

Secondly, I would point out that God will be the reason why we won't live in Eternity despondant over those who chose to reject God.

Chose to reject?
That's a rather huge assumption.

 

[Saint Steven]

So which is sadistic and cruel, to sentence a serial killer to life in imprisonment? Or death?

Or should the serial killer be released back into society?

Please answer.

Why should we expect God to behave like a human?
Isn't he better than that? (yes, he is)

 

[FineLinen]

"Many of the Jews are opposed to the gospel, but their opposition has opened the door of the gospel to you who are not Jewish. Yet they are still greatly loved by God because their ancestors were divinely chosen to be his. And when God chooses someone and graciously imparts gifts to him, they are never rescinded.
You who are not Jews were once rebels against God, but now, because of their disobedience, you have experienced God’s tender mercies. And now they are the rebels, and because of God’s tender mercies to you, you can open the door to them to share in and enjoy what God has given to us! Actually, God considers all of humanity to be prisoners of their unbelief, so that he can unlock our hearts and show his tender mercies to all who come to him. Who could ever wrap their minds around the riches of God, the depth of his wisdom, and the marvel of his perfect knowledge? Who could ever explain the wonder of his decisions or search out the mysterious way he carries out his plans? For who has discovered how the Lord thinks
or is wise enough to be the one to advise him in his plans? Or: Who has ever first given something to God that obligates God to owe him something in return?

For out of him, the sustainer of everything, came everything, and now everything finds fulfillment in him. May all praise and honor be given to him forever! Amen! ~TPT

 

[Saint Steven]

you are forgetting that it is the Holy Spirit that enlightens men, and when men are judged and all men acknowledge that Jesus is Lord it will not be in repentance

What would the need be for repentance be in the afterlife? (from what would they turn?)

 

[Saint Steven]

These are the men that will go into everlasting torment

Everlasting torment for a finite crime? What's just about that?

 

[FineLinen]

Everlasting torment for a finite crime? What's just about that?

Surely you can grasp the Father ABBA has devised unending torture for most of His broken and bruised sinners of Adam1? LOL

Many of the Jews are opposed to the gospel, but their opposition has opened the door of the gospel to you who are not Jewish. Yet they are still greatly loved by God because their ancestors were divinely chosen to be his. And when God chooses someone and graciously imparts gifts to him, they are never rescinded. You who are not Jews were once rebels against God, but now, because of their disobedience, you have experienced God’s tender mercies. And now they are the rebels, and because of God’s tender mercies to you, you can open the door to them to share in and enjoy what God has given to us! Actually, God considers all of humanity to be prisoners of their unbelief, so that he can unlock our hearts and show his tender mercies to all who come to him. Who could ever wrap their minds around the riches of God, the depth of his wisdom, and the marvel of his perfect knowledge? Who could ever explain the wonder of his decisions or search out the mysterious way he carries out his plans? For who has discovered how the Lord thinks or is wise enough to be the one to advise him in his plans? Or: Who has ever first given something to God that obligates God to owe him something in return?

For out of him, the sustainer of everything, came everything, and now everything finds fulfillment in him. May all praise and honor be given to him forever! Amen! ~TPT

 

[Saint Steven]

Surely you can grasp the Father ABBA has devised unending torture for most of His broken and bruised sinners of Adam1? LOL

Exactly!
No good father would do that. What are they accusing Him of?

 

[Saint Steven]

For out of him, the sustainer of everything, came everything, and now everything finds fulfillment in him.

That's a real gem right there!
Sounds more like the heavenly Father we know and love. The one that taught us to love our enemies and do good to those who hate us.

Why should we expect anything less? Is God somehow subhuman? Outdone by his own creation? (nope)

 

[FineLinen]

Exactly!
No good father would do that. What are they accusing Him of?

I refuse any expression that places the Father of all fathers in deplorable terms ! ! !

What we have been told is how we men can be drawn into Christ-can become part of that wonderful present which the young Prince of the universe wants to offer to His Father-that present which is Himself and therefore us in Him. It is the only thing we were made for. And there are strange, exciting hints in the Bible that when we are drawn in, a great many other things in Nature will begin to come right. The bad dream will be over: it will be morning. ~C. S. Lewis

 

[Der Alte]

@FineLinen @Saint Steven
Wow! I am really impressed 9 posts on this page, people espousing universal reconciliation doctrine. And NO, ZERO, NONE scripture.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Nonsense ! !

What part of all is escaping you?

As I said, I don't view the opinions of someone that has forsaken the assembling of the brethren as legitimate input concerning Doctrine and Practice.

"All" must be kept in the context it is found.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Chose to reject?
That's a rather huge assumption.

It's not an assumption.

Or are you saying you believe God withholds His will from some?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Why should we expect God to behave like a human?
Isn't he better than that? (yes, he is)

P1LGR1M said: ↑

So which is sadistic and cruel, to sentence a serial killer to life in imprisonment? Or death?

Or should the serial killer be released back into society?

Please answer.


Answer the question.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

What would the need be for repentance be in the afterlife? (from what would they turn?)

P1LGR1M said: ↑

So which is sadistic and cruel, to sentence a serial killer to life in imprisonment? Or death?

Or should the serial killer be released back into society?

Please answer.

You can answer your own question by answering the one you keep dodging.


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Everlasting torment for a finite crime? What's just about that?

P1LGR1M said: ↑

P1LGR1M said: ↑

So which is sadistic and cruel, to sentence a serial killer to life in imprisonment? Or death?

Or should the serial killer be released back into society?

Please answer.

You can answer your own question by answering the one you keep dodging.


God bless.


Life imprisonment for a finite crime? What's just about that?

The Death Penalty for finite crime?

What's Just about that?

Just answer the question.


God bless.

 

[FineLinen]

As I said, I don't view the opinions of someone that has forsaken the assembling of the brethren as legitimate input concerning Doctrine and Practice."All" must be kept in the context it is found.

The fellowship of the mystery is near and dear to my old life! I regret not responding to you sooner, but alas, my dear wife and I just returned from experiencing it in our local assembly.

Pas radically means all, in or out of context!

 

[Der Alte]

...

The fellowship of the mystery is near and dear to my old life! I regret not responding to you sooner, but alas, my dear wife and I just returned from experiencing it in our local assembly.
Pas radically means all, in or out of context!

Wrong! Before making a broad claim like that one should do some research. It is ridiculously easy to do. With free Bible programs such as ESword, which I use, one can look up every occurrence of any word, who spoke it, when, etc.
Paul used the word " πολλοι/polloi"/"many," 71 times.
Paul used the word "πας/pas"/"all," 375 times
When Paul wanted to say “all” he used "pas," not "polloi"/”many.”
Paul used “oi polloi”/”the many” 12 times where it clearly does not mean "all."
Romans 12:5, Romans 15:22-23, Romans 16:2,1 Corinthians 10:17, 1 Corinthians 10:33, 2 Corinthians 2:17, 2 Corinthians 8:15, Ephesians 2:4, Colossians 4:13, 1 Timothy 3:13
In one verse 1 Cor 10:33 Paul used “the many,” once, and “all,” twice, in the same verse.

1 Corinthians 10:33
33 Even as I please all [παντα] men in all [πασιν] things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many [των πολλων], that they may be saved.​

Paul certainly did not please every person alive during his lifetime.
Paul certainly did not please all men in literally all things.
And this vs. does not say or mean that "all" will be saved. The single Greek word σωθωσιν/sothosin translated "may be saved" is in the aorist, passive, subjunctive mood, 3rd person singular. The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility/potentiality. Had Paul wanted to say "will be saved" he would have used the "future passive indicative" as he did in Romans 5:9.

 

[Der Alte]

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

…..Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who is better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18.
Some mis/uninformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological, root word fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is understood that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars, supported up by 2000 years +/- of continuous Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct translation of obsolete words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of obsolete words which occur in the 1611 KJV and to define them correctly.

 

[P1LGR1M]

The fellowship of the mystery is near and dear to my old life! I regret not responding to you sooner, but alas, my dear wife and I just returned from experiencing it in our local assembly.

Pas radically means all, in or out of context!

lol

That is fantastic.

Now perhaps you might answer my question as to whether this local assembly teaches universal salvation?


God bless.

 

[Der Alte]

....

Everlasting torment for a finite crime? What's just about that?

Are you actually calling Jesus a s liar?

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

…..Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who is better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18.
Some mis/uninformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological, root word fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is understood that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars, supported up by 2000 years +/- of continuous Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct translation of obsolete words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of obsolete words which occur in the 1611 KJV and to define them correctly.

John 3:15-16
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

In these 2 vss. Jesus has paralleled "should not perish" with "aionios/eternal life, twice. By definition "aionios" means "eternal/everlasting."