The Debilitating Masquerade

[rocknanchor]

There are we know subtle yet erroneous religious or spiritual expression. The chief one that has evaded my awareness for years and is able to masquerade as maturity is because in its proper role and time, serves as both initiation and backup to soundness, spiritual “infancy”.

What I also kept for years was the thought that the following wasn’t directed at the quality of instruction nor the maturity,

My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation

(James 3:1)​

I would love to hear the report that there are commentators out there whom resist both quality and maturity, for the verse is blatantly a commentary of itself. For if the verse was directed at spiritual maturity, they wouldn’t be involved in such.

How is this then possible? How does spiritual infancy dwell in more infancy, and the springing up of more “masters”? By NOT moving on in the Spirit!

Therefore leaving the
elementary teaching about the Christ,
let us press on to maturity,
not laying again a foundation of
repentance from dead works
and of faith toward God,

(Hebrews 6:1)​

If you are affiliated with a body who gives thanks (as we should) but to the extent, are likened to those who speak in tongues with no interpreter,

For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified

(1 Corinthians 14:17)​

In this case, “the other” is spiritual maturity who is also there in the pew. We therefore are no better than many masters of spiritual infancy.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'm curious, is this thing you're talking about related to what Jesus said about being like Children to be owners of the kingdom?

In terms of the subject matter of your post, I find it best to walk away from a church that feels the need to speak down to people, responding back in ego kind of makes you just as mature.

 

[~Zao~]

Matthew 21:15-16
But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that He had done, and the children who were shouting in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they became indignant and said to Him, “Do You hear what these children are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read, ‘OUT OF THE MOUTH OF INFANTS AND NURSING BABIES YOU HAVE PREPARED PRAISE FOR YOURSELF’?”

 

[~Zao~]

I'm curious, is this thing you're talking about related to what Jesus said about being like Children to be owners of the kingdom?

In terms of the subject matter of your post, I find it best to walk away from a church that feels the need to speak down to people, responding back in ego kind of makes you just as mature.

I was hesitant of your use of ‘owners’ of the vineyard being the children. Matthew 21 also speaks of the owner of the vineyard, the renters and the son of owner of the vineyard. But the parable concludes with '“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.’"

 

[~Zao~]

I'm curious, is this thing you're talking about related to what Jesus said about being like Children to be owners of the kingdom?

In terms of the subject matter of your post, I find it best to walk away from a church that feels the need to speak down to people, responding back in ego kind of makes you just as mature.

Sorry, still on a fence about that! 41They said to Him, “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.”

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I was hesitant of your use of ‘owners’ of the vineyard being the children. Matthew 21 also speaks of the owner of the vineyard, the renters and the son of owner of the vineyard. But the parable concludes with '“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.’"

I was paraphrasing, the text says "belongs to" (anyone who humbles themself like these little children) was not correlating to that parable, interesting correlation though, I'll pray on it.

 

[rocknanchor]

I'm curious, is this thing you're talking about related to what Jesus said about being like Children to be owners of the kingdom?

In terms of the subject matter of your post, I find it best to walk away from a church that feels the need to speak down to people, responding back in ego kind of makes you just as mature.

Sometimes scriptures, depending upon if what is being said, is more critical than at other times and if they can be “rightfully divided”. This isn’t one of those times. For the author speaks both to the cohesive condition of the body and admission. There might not be any need to ‘speak-down’ if that body was in one accord, for notice, the author includes himself as well.

And this we will do, if God permits.

Hebrews 6:3​

But if they still haven’t come out of that, “be no longer children tossed to and fro” condition, and make up a numbered part of that body, maturity will suffer with it by the will of God till correction, which is also God’s will, advances.

This cycle which is the purpose of this thread, is to expose it for subtle sap it is.

 

[quietbloke]

Sometimes scriptures, depending upon if what is being said, is more critical than at other times and if they can be “rightfully divided”. This isn’t one of those times. For the author speaks both to the cohesive condition of the body and admission. There might not be any need to ‘speak-down’ if that body was in one accord, for notice, the author includes himself as well.

And this we will do, if God permits.

Hebrews 6:3​

But if they still haven’t come out of that, “be no longer children tossed to and fro” condition, and make up a numbered part of that body, maturity will suffer with it by the will of God till correction, which is also God’s will, advances.

This cycle which is the purpose of this thread, is to expose it for subtle sap it is.

Thankyou for your correction,'rocknanchor'

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Sometimes scriptures, depending upon if what is being said, is more critical than at other times and if they can be “rightfully divided”. This isn’t one of those times. For the author speaks both to the cohesive condition of the body and admission. There might not be any need to ‘speak-down’ if that body was in one accord, for notice, the author includes himself as well.

And this we will do, if God permits.

Hebrews 6:3​

But if they still haven’t come out of that, “be no longer children tossed to and fro” condition, and make up a numbered part of that body, maturity will suffer with it by the will of God till correction, which is also God’s will, advances.

This cycle which is the purpose of this thread, is to expose it for subtle sap it is.

I suppose, I meant when you're asking for actual spiritual guidance, they don't have an answer, but parrot a doctrine back at you implying it's not godly what's occurring - or that it's not a conversation that can be had *here*.

 

[rocknanchor]

I suppose, I meant when you're asking for actual spiritual guidance, they don't have an answer, but parrot a doctrine back at you implying it's not godly what's occurring - or that it's not a conversation that can be had *here*.

Well sir, if I’m drawing from your comment correctly, we can guide and we can water that spiritual seed just so much, it is God who gives increase.

But now if you will, work this back to your comment for those who search, if the consent of Church oversight is to place the source of spiritual growth in some fashion short of genuinely relying on His power, should we expect God’s own increase?

Pulling back from NT standards and traditions set forth by the Apostles can take on several forms, but they all center on some form of resistance to His power. Yes, there is even resistance to a “quiet and peaceable life” experiencing His power.

The “answer” that seems to come up short of spiritual guidance still isn’t solely dependent on instruction, but relies instead on the power from on high for our living victorious, which is above and beyond having our house (Temples) swept clean.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well sir, if I’m drawing from your comment correctly, we can guide and we can water that spiritual seed just so much, it is God who gives increase.

But now if you will, work this back to your comment for those who search, if the consent of Church oversight is to place the source of spiritual growth in some fashion short of genuinely relying on His power, should we expect God’s own increase?

Pulling back from NT standards and traditions set forth by the Apostles can take on several forms, but they all center on some form of resistance to His power. Yes, there is even resistance to a “quiet and peaceable life” experiencing His power.

The “answer” that seems to come up short of spiritual guidance still isn’t solely dependent on instruction, but relies instead on the power from on high for our living victorious, which is above and beyond having our house (Temples) swept clean.

That sounds reasonable.

I think I was reflecting on that period of time where I wanted to be discipled but God ended up doing it instead. Woulda been nice to have some miracles to show for it, but probably held back that gift from me so I wouldn't get all proud and such.

 

[rocknanchor]

That sounds reasonable.

I think I was reflecting on that period of time where I wanted to be discipled but God ended up doing it instead. Woulda been nice to have some miracles to show for it, but probably held back that gift from me so I wouldn't get all proud and such.

Interesting, and to some extent mine too, who knows, likely the vast majority of new convert's lament. But I still count it all as in good first-steps company,

I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, - Apostle Paul

Galatians 1:16​

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Interesting, and to some extent mine too, who knows, likely the vast majority of new convert's lament. But I still count it all as in good first-steps company,

I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, - Apostle Paul

Galatians 1:16​

Thanks for the encouragement.

I think the experience flavors certain passages such as when Jesus said, those who serve you will be great among you, thinking the man made organization isn't owed anything basically.

that being said, it sounds kind of off balance, so I'll pray on it.