The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

[Bro.T]

As I have shown the first sentence, "ample evidence from history shows...", is totally false Repeating the same unsupported rubbish over and over does not make it true. What you are posting is NOT history.

When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember. As thousands of sun-worshipers flocked into the church, it wasn't long before they had a dominating influence. Most of his top officials had been sun-worshipers. Because the Roman government was getting shaky, Constantine consulted with his aides and with the church officials in Rome.

"What shall we do? How can we unite and stabilize the government?"

The counsel of the church leaders was timely.

"Pass a Sunday law. Force everyone to cease work and honor Sunday."

That was it! It would satisfy the sun-worshiping pagans, and unite pagans, Christians, and the Roman empire as never before.

The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record:

"Let all the judges and town people, and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun" Edict of March 7, 321 A.D. Corpus Juris Civilis Cod., lib. 3, tit. 12, Lex. 3.

The Christians who would not compromise and dishonor God found themselves in a dilemma. Satan had worked things around so that you were forced to honor the pagan "day of the sun" or pay the penalty. Even after the Emperor's Sunday law, many Christians continued to honor and keep holy the seventh-day Sabbath that their Saviour had kept. God knew what was going on and had predicted that the man of sin would "think to change times and laws." Satan was about to pull off a world-wide hoax.

 

[Der Alte]

I can see you so fire up to be right and call me wrong you allow understanding to fly right past you. Whether it's a Sabbath day or Holy Day it still a day to the Lord they must be observe in it's season and or time. The Old Testament refers to God’s “day of rest” most famously in Genesis and Exodus, but Sabbath referring to an entire year of rest is mentioned in Leviticus (25:3-5):
Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof; But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard. That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land.

Please show me where this says anything about 1st/7th ULB being Sabbaths? The word "Sabbath" occurs four times. Never once does it refer to 1/7 ULB.
So based on all this you worship on the day you choose and stay out of my business.

Question: "Did Constantine change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?"
Answer: In the year 321 A.D., Constantine decreed, "On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed" (Codex Justinianus lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 380, note 1). Constantine seems to have made this change himself and not through the papacy, since the papacy had not really come in to being at that time. The papacy grew gradually out of the office of Bishop and for many years this was centered in Rome. In any case, it should be noted that in doing this, Constantine is not changing the Sabbath; he is merely making Sunday the official day of rest for the Roman Empire. His motivation was probably not born out of hatred for the Jews (it’s hard to say for sure why Constantine or any historical figure did what they did) but out of a desire to adopt what the Christians had practiced for nearly two and a half centuries.
It is well documented that the early church adopted Sunday as their day of worship. Acts 20:7 speaks of this, "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people …" and 1 Corinthians 16:2, "On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made." These passages indicate that Christians were probably meeting regularly on Sunday (the first day of the week). They did this most likely because Christ rose on the first day of the week. It wasn’t until hundreds of years later that the death of Christ became the focal point of Christian worship services. That is not to say they thought it unimportant; but they were primarily concerned with His victory over death realized in His resurrection.
It is important to remember that corporate worship with other believers is necessary and part of obedience, but the day that your church body chooses to worship on is not really that significant. The New Testament addresses this in a couple of different passages. Colossians 2:14-17 says, "He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross. So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.” Also see Romans 14:5-6, "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God."
Did Constantine change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday? | GotQuestions.org​

 

[Der Alte]

When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember. As thousands of sun-worshipers flocked into the church, it wasn't long before they had a dominating influence. Most of his top officials had been sun-worshipers. Because the Roman government was getting shaky, Constantine consulted with his aides and with the church officials in Rome.

"What shall we do? How can we unite and stabilize the government?"

The counsel of the church leaders was timely.

"Pass a Sunday law. Force everyone to cease work and honor Sunday."

That was it! It would satisfy the sun-worshiping pagans, and unite pagans, Christians, and the Roman empire as never before.

The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record:

"Let all the judges and town people, and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun" Edict of March 7, 321 A.D. Corpus Juris Civilis Cod., lib. 3, tit. 12, Lex. 3.

The Christians who would not compromise and dishonor God found themselves in a dilemma. Satan had worked things around so that you were forced to honor the pagan "day of the sun" or pay the penalty. Even after the Emperor's Sunday law, many Christians continued to honor and keep holy the seventh-day Sabbath that their Saviour had kept. God knew what was going on and had predicted that the man of sin would "think to change times and laws." Satan was about to pull off a world-wide hoax.

Most of this is unsupported inflammatory rubbish e.g. 1000s of sun worshipers flocking to the church.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Come on with these weak mind games, you read them both, you know what it says. There's know way you can get around it. The scriptures and verses speak for themselves.

OK so you were wrong and there was nothing in Daniel...as I suspected

 

[Bro.T]

OK so you were wrong and there was nothing in Daniel...as I suspected

peace in Jesus mighty name

 

[HARK!]

You seem to have a comprehension disconnect.
Nothing you have posted says that the first and seventh day [1/7] of Unleavened Bread [ULB] are called Sabbaths.
Not one single verse in either testament states that 1/7 ULB is/will be observed as a Sabbath.
If you you can, please show me one verse, two or more would be better, which calls 1/7 ULB a Sabbath please do so.
If you can't, let it go, your only reason in trying to make 1/7 ULB Sabbaths is to try to prop up your assumptions/presuppositions about 2 Sabbaths in passion week.

Can you explain this passage?

(CLV) Lk 23:54
And it was the day of preparation, and a sabbath lighted up.

(CLV) Lk 23:55
Now following after, the women who were come together out of Galilee with Him, gaze at the tomb, and how His body was placed.

(CLV) Lk 23:56
Now, returning, they make ready spices and attars. And on the sabbath, indeed, they are quiet, according to the precept.

(CLV) Lk 24:1
Now in the early depths of one of the sabbaths, they, and certain others together with them, came onto the tomb, bringing the spices which they make ready.

 

[Der Alte]

Can you explain this passage?
(CLV) Lk 23:54
And it was the day of preparation, and a sabbath lighted up.
(CLV) Lk 23:55
Now following after, the women who were come together out of Galilee with Him, gaze at the tomb, and how His body was placed.
(CLV) Lk 23:56
Now, returning, they make ready spices and attars. And on the sabbath, indeed, they are quiet, according to the precept.
(CLV) Lk 24:1
Now in the early depths of one of the sabbaths, they, and certain others together with them, came onto the tomb, bringing the spices which they make ready.

I'm not sure what explanation you are asking for. Let me quote from the Eastern Orthodox Bible. Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church for 2000+ years. Who better than the faculty of native Greek speaking scholars know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the NT?

Luke 23
54 It was the [day of the] Preparation, and the Sabbath was drawing near.
55 And the women who had come with Jesus out of Galilee followed [Joseph] and saw the tomb, and how his body was laid. 56 They returned [home], and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath, they rested according to the commandment.
The Lord’s resurrection
24 1 On the first day of the week, at early dawn, they and some others came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared.
2 But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. 3 So they entered in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it happened, as they were greatly perplexed about this, that behold, two men stood by them in shining garments. 5 Terrified, the women bowed their faces to the ground.
Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament (Lk 23:53–24:5). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.​

If Lk 24:1 actually means "one of the Sabbaths" which series of Sabbaths was it one of? Jesus was in the tomb on the weekly Sabbath.
According to John 19:14 Passover, thus ULB, fell on the weekly Sabbath. What series of Sabbaths began the day after the weekly Sabbath?

 

[HARK!]

According to John 19:14 Passover, thus ULB, fell on the weekly Sabbath. What series of Sabbaths began the day after the weekly Sabbath?

That's not what John 19:14 actually says; is it?

 

[Der Alte]

That's not what John 19:14 actually says; is it?

You are partially correct John does not say "Passover, thus ULB, fell on the weekly Sabbath." But when all the relevant scripture are reviewed that is the correct conclusion. There was only one "Parasceue"/preparation in passion week.

John 19:14-15
14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
Mark 15:42
42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
Luke 23:54
54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
John 19:31
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.​

 

[HARK!]

You are partially correct John does not say "Passover, thus ULB, fell on the weekly Sabbath.

How do you get 3 days out of that? Let alone 3 nights!

 

[Der Alte]

How do you get 3 days out of that? Let alone 3 nights!

I wasn't looking for proof of three days. I was showing that Mary and the women went to the tomb on the first day of the week not "one of the Sabbaths". There was no series of Sabbath which would make the day after the weekly Sabbath "one of the Sabbaths."

 

[HARK!]

I wasn't looking for proof of three days. I was showing that Mary and the women went to the tomb on the first day of the week not "one of the Sabbaths". There was no series of Sabbath which would make the day after the weekly Sabbath "one of the Sabbaths."

Three days and three nights are the proof that Yahshua gave.

 

[Sheila Davis]

I agree we shouldn't argue, but let's keep in mind what Paul says in 2 Timothy 4: 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

So that is a direct contradiction of each other? Paul says don't argue then he says argue - is that what you're showing me?
Romans 14:3 let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth. For God has received him. The same principle applies to "certain" differences in beliefs or opinions - and please take note I said certain.
One can argued back and forth without a resolution about what some scriptures mean - that is why there are so many denominations and denominations within denominations in Christianity. Argue the cultural practices - what the translators felt the true meaning is - whether they actually translated according to their views on time or the views of the original people and practices of their times.
In my opinion which can't be proven or disproven - the books of Matthew, Mark, and possibly John was not written by any of the Apostles and the Book of Luke was written by a friend of Paul's. They well written by people who knew the stories. Paul's writing are the only authentic and proven books in the New Testament. So what is the point of debating who's right and who's wrong - especially when it comes to opinions that will not change or hinder whether one is redeemed or not. State what you feel and leave it at that. But people won't do that they have to tell you you're wrong and I'm right. Thank you -nothing else to say on this subject.

 

[Der Alte]

Three days and three nights are the proof that Yahshua gave.

That is not all Yeshua said about it.

"Today, there is a vocal minority of Christians who have made a tremendous issue out of the phrase "three days and three nights." They insist that Jesus used the expression because He was to be in the grave exactly seventy-two hours, not a second more or second less. This conviction has led them to conclude that Christ was crucified on Wednesday afternoon and was resurrected at the same hour late Sabbath afternoon. In this way they account for the full seventy-two hours which they believe Christ spent in the tomb.
On seventeen separate occasions, Jesus or His friends spoke of the timetable involving His death and resurrection.

• Ten times it was specified that the resurrection would take place on the "third day" (Mat.16:21; 17:23; 20:19; Mark 9:31; 10:34, Luke 9:22; 13:32; 18:33; 24:7,46).
• On five occasions they said, "in three days" (Matthew 26:61; 27:40, Mark 15:29, John 2:19-20).
• Twice they used the phrase, "after three days" (Matthew 27:63, Mark 8:31).
• And one time only Jesus spoke of His death as "three days and three nights" (Matthew 12:40).

Without question, all of these various expressions are used to describe the very same event. There seems to be no controversy regarding this point. "The third day," "in three days," "after three days," and "three days and three nights" are equivalent terms used in the scripture in reference to the resurrection of Jesus.
Expressions Cannot Be Literal
Now we ask the question: Can all of these expressions be taken in a strictly literal sense and still harmonize with each other? Absolutely not! For example, "after three days" would certainly have to be interpreted as longer than seventy-two hours. "In three days" could mean anytime less than seventy-two hours, and "three days and three nights" could only mean exactly seventy-two hours to the second. And "the third day" presents even greater problems as we shall notice in a moment.
Does this sound terribly confusing? If so, it is only because men have placed their own interpretation upon the meaning of God's Word. We must let the scripture explain itself, and especially, we must let Christ provide definitions for the words which He spoke. It would be a mammoth mistake to seize upon any one of the expressions used and force its strict compliance with our interpretation without reference to the other sixteen texts on the subject."​

Quote from eleven page article which harmonizes all of the various statements.
Three Days and Three Nights

 

[HARK!]

That is not all Yeshua said about it.

No it's not. It's not all that scripture has to say about it either.

What day do you suppose that Yahshua rode into Jerusalem?

Do you have any idea?

 

[klutedavid]

The keeping of Sunday as the Christian sabbath is not of God but of Man. If you are a true Christian, which means a follower of Christ or to be Christ like; then why are you following a day set up by man? We have proved that Paul kept the Lord’s sabbath well after the death and resurrection of Christ. So why are you going to church on the first day of the week? Well if you don’t know history will tell you why.

ORIGIN OF SUNDAY WORSHIP

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

Are you saying that Sunday observance did not occur until after 336 AD?

 

[HARK!]

Without question, all of these various expressions are used to describe the very same event. There seems to be no controversy regarding this point. "The third day," "in three days," "after three days," and "three days and three nights" are equivalent terms used in the scripture in reference to the resurrection of Jesus.
Expressions Cannot Be Literal
Now we ask the question: Can all of these expressions be taken in a strictly literal sense and still harmonize with each other? Absolutely not! For example, "after three days" would certainly have to be interpreted as longer than seventy-two hours. "In three days" could mean anytime less than seventy-two hours, and "three days and three nights" could only mean exactly seventy-two hours to the second. And "the third day" presents even greater problems as we shall notice in a moment.
Does this sound terribly confusing? If so, it is only because men have placed their own interpretation upon the meaning of God's Word. We must let the scripture explain itself, and especially, we must let Christ provide definitions for the words which He spoke. It would be a mammoth mistake to seize upon any one of the expressions used and force its strict compliance with our interpretation without reference to the other sixteen texts on the subject."

This is what happens when we read our own biased interpretation into scripture.

The verses don't say "within" three days. They say "in" three days.

I'll demonstrate a most common understanding of this expression. This understanding has helped me to keep my appointments for many years.

"I'll see you today." Same day - 1 day.

"I'll see you "in" a day." Tomorrow - a day from now - 2 days.

"I'll see you "in" two days." Not today, not tomorrow, but the day following tomorrow. 3 days. Today 1 - Tomorrow 2 - the following day 3 - three days.

"I'll see you "in" three days." Not today 1, not tomorrow 2, not the the next day after tomorrow 3, but the day after that 4. Four days.

You don't have to jump through a whole bunch of hoops to harmonize scripture. You can just approach it from a common understanding. It's easy.

Now what might get complicated, is that the Hebrews and the Romans had two different definitions of a day.

Now that we've established the basics, let's move onto something more advanced. The day that Yahshua rode into Jerusalem has great significance prophetically; and it further defines the timeline.

 

[prodromos]

I believe that the reference to Jonah was specific, considering that Yahshua specifically gave us specific numbers. I also consider the possibility that the story of Jonah could have been a prophetic sign that pointed to Yahshua.

If you believe that statement was an idiom; what do you suppose that he meant by it? Why would you suppose that half of that sentence must be taken literally; but the other half of the same sentence is an idiom? Can we apply the same approach to every verse in the Bible in your opinion? What would prevent you as going so far as to say that the whole Bible is an idiom? Where do you draw the line?

There is nothing non-specific in using idioms. If I buy 20 head of cattle it is clearly understood by all parties involved that I am not just buying heads, but whole animals. When you hear on the news that England beat Wales in the rugby world cup, it is understood by all without confusion that it was the English rugby team that beat the Welsh rugby team and not the entire population of the respective countries.
It is the very wholeness or cardinality of the expression "3 days and 3 nights" that identifies it as idiom which then harmonises immediately with the other expressions Jesus used to prepare His disciples for His approaching passion, as well as the Gospel accounts of Jesus' death and burial on the 6th day, the day on which He made man and has now restored man by destroying death (many saints rose to life at the moment of His death), His rest in the tomb on the 7th day, the Sabbath, and His rising to life on the 8th day, a new eternal day that is not followed by night.

 

[prodromos]

I'll demonstrate a most common understanding of this expression. This understanding has helped me to keep my appointments for many years.

"I'll see you today." Same day - 1 day.

"I'll see you "in" a day." Tomorrow - a day from now - 2 days.

"I'll see you "in" two days." Not today, not tomorrow, but the day following tomorrow. 3 days. Today 1 - Tomorrow 2 - the following day 3 - three days.

"I'll see you "in" three days." Not today 1, not tomorrow 2, not the the next day after tomorrow 3, but the day after that 4. Four days.

Can you provide evidence that this is how 1st century Jews would have understood the expressions?

Matthew 27:62-64

Next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate and said, “Sir, we remember how that imposter said, while he was still alive, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ Therefore order the sepulchre to be made secure until the third day, lest his disciples go and steal him away, and tell the people, ‘He has risen from the dead,’ and the last fraud will be worse than the first.”​

According to your 'common' understanding, the Pharisees wanted the tomb secure until the 3rd day, whereas they quote Jesus saying He would rise after 3 days, when the guard would no longer be there.

 

[LaSorcia]

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