The Da Vinci Code

[Mayflower1]

To Muhammad he is wrong...

To us, you'll are wrong.

 

[RealityCheck]

To Muhammad he is wrong...

To us, you'll are wrong.

And there you have it - truth is relative.

 

[Zaac]

As I said. You can say it, but that don't make it true.

And as I have said, you can't say it ain't true, unless you've got the truth.

 

[RealityCheck]

And as I have said, you can't say it ain't true, unless you've got the truth.

Okay. You're wrong.

There, I said it, therefore it must be the truth.

 

[michabo]

And there you have it - truth is relative.

Truth isn't relative. It just means that none of us have a means of differentiating their claims and determining which, if any, are true. That's why faith doesn't lead to knowledge.

 

[Mayflower1]

Faith leads to all wisdom, but that wouldn't make sense if you don't believe in God... Faith lead me to not watching the Da Vinci code. It has led me in the right direction in my life. The only thing that stopped me from killing myself a few months ago during depression was my faith. I threw the comet out before I drank it. I gathered the knowledge that I was WORTH something, and I can never throw that out. Truth isn't relative. Truth comes from experience, truth comes from faith in whatever you believe. We can argue this all day but it won't change you'lls ideas and it won't change ours.

 

[Zaac]

God said to Muhammed that Jesus was just another prophet but was not divine. I guess that makes you wrong.

Muhammad also said that Jesus Christ was nothing but a slave on whom Allah showed favor(Sura 43:59); yet, elsewhere, we are told that the Messiah(Jesus Christ) was not a slave(Sura 4:172). Muslim tradition teaches that Christ was taken bodily off of the Cross without having died(Sura 4:157); yet elswhere teaches that Christ died and was resurrected(Sura 199:33).

Muhammad also refers to Jesus Christ as the Messiah. So it sounds like Muhammad wasn't sure and was trying to make sure he had all his bases covered.

 

[michabo]

Muhammad also refers to Jesus Christ as the Messiah. So it sounds like Muhammad wasn't sure and was trying to make sure he had all his bases covered.

Sounds like God was confused, or trying to confuse us.

The important thing is that we listen to God's words, all of them. Even the inconsistent ones. Unless they are wrong, in which case we definately shouldn't listen to them!

Sounds pretty straight-forward to me.

 

[Zaac]

Okay. You're wrong.

There, I said it, therefore it must be the truth.

You still can't say I'm wrong unless you're saying you are absolutely right.

 

[Zaac]

Sounds like God was confused, or trying to confuse us.

Sounds like Muhammad was confused.

The important thing is that we listen to God's words, all of them. Even the inconsistent ones. Unless they are wrong, in which case we definately shouldn't listen to them!

Sounds pretty straight-forward to me.

A perfect God is not inconsistent. He is unchanging. And that's why truth is ABSOLUTE.

Now reconcile that with Muhammad and what he had folks write in the Qu'ran.

 

[Animus]

Sounds like Muhammad was confused.



A perfect God is not inconsistent. He is unchanging. And that's why truth is ABSOLUTE.

Now reconcile that with Muhammad and what he had folks write in the Qu'ran.

So what's the deal with "eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek?" Do you eat deer? Pig? Shrimp?

 

[Belk]

You still can't say I'm wrong unless you're saying you are absolutely right.

I disagree. If you claim that 2+2=6, I only need to know that 2+2 =/= 6. I do not need to know that 2+2=4 to refute your claim.

 

[crumbs2000]

Sounds like Muhammad was confused.



A perfect God is not inconsistent. He is unchanging. And that's why truth is ABSOLUTE.

Now reconcile that with Muhammad and what he had folks write in the Qu'ran.

READ your Bible, then you will see it's up there with the best of the confused. Since you keep on harping on about the TRUTH according the bible, why don't you answer the post I have put up regarding the inconsistent teachings within the so called book of truth.

STORIES which were not even written by God, but recounted as oral tales over more than 80 years before anyone decided they can even write and comprehend anything, then translated and translations translated again???

That's just the New Testament for starters. Just because that is what you were taught and grew up with doesn't make it true.

It's only TRUE in your eyes as that is what your faith would have you believe.

Your argument is typical of most Christians circular argument, but the fact of the matter is, allowing for human error and scientific fact (just refer to the Noah and Flood story to start with, and the Creation according to Genesis) and the many contradictory natures of God in the bible, and the many unfulfilled prophecies in the bible (for it says that every prophecy has been fullfilled), it's can be proven that the bible is so erroneous.

That is if one can look at it objectively.

Let's examine your CONSISTENT God of the bible:

Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.”

Numbers 5:11-21 Here we find a description of a similar process to abortion.

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.

Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.

Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.

Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.

Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?

Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.

2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”

1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God’s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.

I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.

Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife.

Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.

Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.

Lamentations 2:20-22 God gets angry and mercilessly torments and kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children.

Proverbs 13:24, 19:18, 22:15, 23:13-14 & 29:15 God commands repeatedly that you beat your children.

Matthew 19:29 If you really loved Jesus then he insists that you abandon your wife and children for him. Only that way will he allow you to go to heaven.





You can choose to believe it as you see fit, and you may see it as YOUR TRUTH but please don't say it's an absolute truth because it's not.

Other faiths make the same claim and they see you believing in lies. Their claims, to themselves are valid same way your claim is valid only in your eyes.

It also says in the bible, there is nothing new under the sun......or words to that effect, well, we all know that there have been many things that have gone on since the bible was written that are NEW UNDER THE SUN! Eg. Space Travel, Air Travel and countless millions of other things.

It's funny how they also claim that bible is complete work as it is... quoting scripture saying that no one can add or take away from it. I find that ludicrous there was NO bible when that was written and it was referring to the book that it came from. The bible was actually hobbled together by men, who were influenced by the political and religious pressures at the time.

Who decided which books are included in the bible? Please answer me that?

God did not pen it and say please include that and remove that one etc. etc.

I personally believe Jesus existed and there is a God, but now as the Christians of today portray it because they take everything from a literal standpoint from the only thing they have to hold on to - the Bible.

 

[crumbs2000]

Faith leads to all wisdom, ..............

The same wisdom to kill and torture thousands of innocent people because they were branded as heretics and witches as they didn't believe in your God? The same wisdom that destroyed so many indigenous cultures around the undiscovered world because they saw people as heathens and savages not as human beings? The same wisdom that so called christians used to justify keeping slaves. The same wisdom that Adolf Hitler used to kill the Jews?

 

[Vegas]

The same wisdom to kill and torture thousands of innocent people because they were branded as heretics and witches as they didn't believe in your God? The same wisdom that destroyed so many indigenous cultures around the undiscovered world because they saw people as heathens and savages not as human beings? The same wisdom that so called christians used to justify keeping slaves. The same wisdom that Adolf Hitler used to kill the Jews?

Don't blame believers for the acts of a bureacracy that has had little to do with Jesus over the centuries.

Adolf Hitler? Faith? It's not very often those two ideas collide in the same sentence.

 

[crumbs2000]

Don't blame believers for the acts of a bureacracy that has had little to do with Jesus over the centuries.

Adolf Hitler? Faith? It's not very often those two ideas collide in the same sentence.

Look up your history. Adolf Hitler was an ardent supporter of Christian church and actulally subscribed to most of their teachings at the time. Like blaming the jews for the death of Christ and persecution of homosexuals.

Don't blame believers for acts of bureacracy??? Inquisition and killing of so called witches??? Umm, let's see, I can really see that was a secular decision.

And I'm sorry, but the truth of the matter is that the right to keep slaves by whites was jusified as being right according to the bible.

 

[Vegas]

Look up your history. Adolf Hitler was an ardent supporter of Christian church AH was not a supporter of any faith, and used Christianity just as the emporers in Rome did. AH was, if anything, a mystic, who followed superstitious teachings of occultists. Don't blame believers for acts of bureacracy??? Yes. The RCC was and is a bureacracy with decisions being made that were political and economic... Inquisition and killing of so called witches??? Umm, let's see, I can really see that was a secular decision. You are leaping at the wrong conclusion here...

And I'm sorry, but the truth of the matter is that the right to keep slaves by whites was jusified as being right according to the bible.

Justified by whom? It was not the common man justifying slavery with The Bible. It was the RCC and The Church of England... what was their motivation? Faith?

 

[Zaac]

I disagree. If you claim that 2+2=6, I only need to know that 2+2 =/= 6. I do not need to know that 2+2=4 to refute your claim.

If you don't know that 2+2= 4, there is no way for you to honestly refute my claim that 2+2=6.

You can't know that it's wrong unless you've got the answer by which to righteously judge it.

 

[Zaac]

READ your Bible, then you will see it's up there with the best of the confused. Since you keep on harping on about the TRUTH according the bible, why don't you answer the post I have put up regarding the inconsistent teachings within the so called book of truth.

STORIES which were not even written by God, but recounted as oral tales over more than 80 years before anyone decided they can even write and comprehend anything, then translated and translations translated again???

That's just the New Testament for starters. Just because that is what you were taught and grew up with doesn't make it true.

It's only TRUE in your eyes as that is what your faith would have you believe.

Your argument is typical of most Christians circular argument, but the fact of the matter is, allowing for human error and scientific fact (just refer to the Noah and Flood story to start with, and the Creation according to Genesis) and the many contradictory natures of God in the bible, and the many unfulfilled prophecies in the bible (for it says that every prophecy has been fullfilled), it's can be proven that the bible is so erroneous.

That is if one can look at it objectively.

Let's examine your CONSISTENT God of the bible:

Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.”

Numbers 5:11-21 Here we find a description of a similar process to abortion.

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.

Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.

Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.

Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.

Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?

Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.

2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”

1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God’s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.

I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.

Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife.

Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.

Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.

Lamentations 2:20-22 God gets angry and mercilessly torments and kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children.

Proverbs 13:24, 19:18, 22:15, 23:13-14 & 29:15 God commands repeatedly that you beat your children.

Matthew 19:29 If you really loved Jesus then he insists that you abandon your wife and children for him. Only that way will he allow you to go to heaven.





You can choose to believe it as you see fit, and you may see it as YOUR TRUTH but please don't say it's an absolute truth because it's not.

Other faiths make the same claim and they see you believing in lies. Their claims, to themselves are valid same way your claim is valid only in your eyes.

It also says in the bible, there is nothing new under the sun......or words to that effect, well, we all know that there have been many things that have gone on since the bible was written that are NEW UNDER THE SUN! Eg. Space Travel, Air Travel and countless millions of other things.

It's funny how they also claim that bible is complete work as it is... quoting scripture saying that no one can add or take away from it. I find that ludicrous there was NO bible when that was written and it was referring to the book that it came from. The bible was actually hobbled together by men, who were influenced by the political and religious pressures at the time.

Who decided which books are included in the bible? Please answer me that?

God did not pen it and say please include that and remove that one etc. etc.

I personally believe Jesus existed and there is a God, but now as the Christians of today portray it because they take everything from a literal standpoint from the only thing they have to hold on to - the Bible.

Crumbs, let me summarily answer your question. Your mind is finit. God's is not. What is confusing to you makes perfectly good sense to Him.

Don't think that because man is confused that God's Word is incorrect.

 

[RealityCheck]

If you don't know that 2+2= 4, there is no way for you to honestly refute my claim that 2+2=6.

You can't know that it's wrong unless you've got the answer by which to righteously judge it.

Hmmmm.

Prior to Copernicus and Galileo, the prevailing belief was that the earth was at the center of the universe. Copernicus first put forward a heliocentric model of the universe, and Galileo championed it with hard data that showed the earth could NOT be at the center of the universe, and that the earth had to orbit the sun, not the other way around.

But even Galileo believed in a universe with the sun at the center.

Now, of course, we know the sun is only at the center of our own Solar System, and that not only is that not the center of the universe, but no point is the center of the universe - there is no center.

So Galileo was wrong with a heliocentric universe, but he still knew that the geocentric model was wrong.

Thus, he was able to judge something as wrong, even though he did not have the absolute right answer.