The Da Vinci Code

[Zaac]

I don't know "the truth", whatever that might be. I've just said (and am saying again) that faith can not lead you to truth, for the simple reason that, should you happen to believe something which happens to be true, you will never know it.

You would have to have a measure of the truth in order to say that faith cannot lead you to truth. Otherwise, your statement is mere conjecture.

You have no way to tell if your beliefs are true or not. That's why you must rely on faith.

Same reply as above.

Oh, I know. After all, I have faith.

See, if the arguments Christians use to validate their own beliefs are permissible, then we can validate any belief including the DaVinci Code. Missing documents, oral histories, you name it.

Christians don't need to validate their beliefs. As was said before, we're not tasked by God to convince people that He is Who He says He is. He'll do that.

Now when you approach it from the standpoint that we're not attempting to convince you of anything, but rather obeying God in telling you what is wrong, there is nothing left for you upon which to validate your argument.

You don't have to be accepting of what you're being told. But don't think for an instance that I'm trying to convince you when I tell you. I can intellectually convince you of a lot of things. None of them will save you.

Believing that a centuries old, commonly known theorem should disprove evolution should be embarassing, even to you.

Who said that I believe that? I'm simply saying that a law of man, tried and tested seems to contradict another belief of man.


*sigh*

I'm just showing that your arguments can be used to defend any position at all, including the positions you are attacking! I mean, c'mon.

One, I don't argue. Two, you've done nothing but prove my point that neither you nor any other non Christian can say that a Christian does not know absolute truth unless you're saying that you do.

 

[michabo]

Who said that I believe that? I'm simply saying that a law of man, tried and tested seems to contradict another belief of man.

It is nothing of the sort. It seems that you don't understand either evolution of thermodynamics.

I would think that you might have the intellectual humility to pause for a moment and consider that something else might be going on whenever you think that there are obvious flaws in one of science's most successful theories (evolution).

Two, you've done nothing but prove my point that neither you nor any other non Christian can say that a Christian does not know absolute truth unless you're saying that you do.

Out of curiosity, what do you think "knowledge" is? How can you "know" something, if someone else "knows" the exact opposite when both of you use the same methodology?

 

[Vegas]

If you are talking about faith, how can someone who has no faith comment on faith?

 

[RealityCheck]

One, I don't argue. Two, you've done nothing but prove my point that neither you nor any other non Christian can say that a Christian does not know absolute truth unless you're saying that you do.

By that logic, you cannot say that a Muslim does not know absolute truth, or that a Wiccan does not know absolute truth, or that an atheist does not know absolute truth.......

 

[Vegas]

By that logic, you cannot say that a Muslim does not know absolute truth, or that a Wiccan does not know absolute truth, or that an atheist does not know absolute truth.......

One can always say someone else doesn't know the truth if they themselves know it. If you admit you don't know the truth, you can not accuse someone else of not knowing it. (Unless, of course, they promote something that you know NOT to be true. But then, you would know some truth.. )

 

[Adriac]

They decidely do. If you're gonna tell me that I don't have the truth, you can't say it unless you're sure I don't.

If you tell me that I cannot know the truth, you have summarily told me that you can otherwise your statement is a lie.

Yeah? Well, you can't turn lead into gold either.

 

[RealityCheck]

One can always say someone else doesn't know the truth if they themselves know it. If you admit you don't know the truth, you can not accuse someone else of not knowing it. (Unless, of course, they promote something that you know NOT to be true. But then, you would know some truth.. )

You can say it. But that don't make it so.

 

[RealityCheck]

If you are talking about faith, how can someone who has no faith comment on faith?

The same way people who aren't in politics can comment on politics, or people who aren't Muslim can comment on Islam, etc.

 

[Vegas]

The same way people who aren't in politics can comment on politics, or people who aren't Muslim can comment on Islam, etc.

Ahhh, without any credibility?

 

[RealityCheck]

Ahhh, without any credibility?

Hardly. Plenty of non-Muslims study Islam. Plenty of non-politicians study politics. Roger Ebert doesn't make movies or star in them, but he's quite credible when he talks about movies and what makes for a good movie.


Of course, if you're going to hold such a standard, then creationists cannot talk about evolution credibly, and fundamentalists cannot talk about homosexuality since no fundamentalist is gay.

 

[Vegas]

Hardly. Plenty of non-Muslims study Islam. Plenty of non-politicians study politics. Roger Ebert doesn't make movies or star in them, but he's quite credible when he talks about movies and what makes for a good movie.


Of course, if you're going to hold such a standard, then creationists cannot talk about evolution credibly, and fundamentalists cannot talk about homosexuality since no fundamentalist is gay.

Film criticism is not based on faith, nor is politics (to some degree). My point is that one can not talk about faith with credibility if one does does not believe in that which one is discoursing.

It is a blind person talking about color or a deaf person lecturing on classical music appreciation

 

[RealityCheck]

Aha. So Beethoveen could not possibly have taught a class on music appreciation, being deaf himself?

 

[Mayflower1]

Beethoveen is such an inspiration to me as a music major myself... Sorry, got distracted, I love music appreciation and all things about music!!!!

I think Beethoveen was an exception because he was very gifted. Many others could attempt to do that, but the fact is, not everyone can. Beethoveen had an exceptional gift with music. He just knew a lot about it.

I can't see a dance instructor not being able to dance, or a voice teacher, not being able to sing. Nor can I see this man write the Da Vinci code as not actually a historian or what, except from the articles he found and developed an opinion over.

 

[Vegas]

Aha. So Beethoveen could not possibly have taught a class on music appreciation, being deaf himself?

Not deaf until aduthood, partially deaf until late in his life... only his last symphony was written when deaf.

 

[Mayflower1]

He knew a lot about music before being deaf but he is still very incredible. I doubt I could do that...

 

[Zaac]

It is nothing of the sort. It seems that you don't understand either evolution of thermodynamics.

It seems that is your opinion and you're welcome to it.

I would think that you might have the intellectual humility to pause for a moment and consider that something else might be going on whenever you think that there are obvious flaws in one of science's most successful theories (evolution).

I have the intellectual and scientific prowess to see flawed science as exactly that.

Out of curiosity, what do you think "knowledge" is? How can you "know" something, if someone else "knows" the exact opposite when both of you use the same methodology?

Doesn't matter what we know. What matters is what God says. If we're in disagreement with Him, we're wrong.

 

[Zaac]

By that logic, you cannot say that a Muslim does not know absolute truth, or that a Wiccan does not know absolute truth, or that an atheist does not know absolute truth.......

Your logic is wrong because unlike the nonChristian, I HAVE CLAIMED to have God's absolute truth. As a result, I can say it.

 

[RealityCheck]

Beethoveen is such an inspiration to me as a music major myself... Sorry, got distracted, I love music appreciation and all things about music!!!!

I think Beethoveen was an exception because he was very gifted. Many others could attempt to do that, but the fact is, not everyone can. Beethoveen had an exceptional gift with music. He just knew a lot about it.

I can't see a dance instructor not being able to dance, or a voice teacher, not being able to sing. Nor can I see this man write the Da Vinci code as not actually a historian or what, except from the articles he found and developed an opinion over.

"Teaching" is quite a bit different than "commenting on".

And to give you pause to think: My music instructors in elementary through high school gave lessons for every kind of instrument, trumpet and flute and clarinet, drums and piano and oboe and violin... yet out of those, they could actually play, competently, one or two.

 

[RealityCheck]

Your logic is wrong because unlike the nonChristian, I HAVE CLAIMED to have God's absolute truth. As a result, I can say it.

As I said. You can say it, but that don't make it true.

 

[michabo]

Doesn't matter what we know. What matters is what God says. If we're in disagreement with Him, we're wrong.

God said to Muhammed that Jesus was just another prophet but was not divine. I guess that makes you wrong.