The Da Vinci Code

[michabo]

It would never shake my faith. My faith is unwavering.

Um, good?

This movie though, if it is lying about my Saviour and trying to portray a lie as truth, then the movie is NOT for me.

Don't worry. "The DaVinci Code" has no more (or less) truth than any other religious book out there. Enjoy.

 

[Mayflower1]

Um, good?

Don't worry. "The DaVinci Code" has no more (or less) truth than any other religious book out there. Enjoy.

Matter of personal opinion really. Of course it will depend on if you believe in God or not.

 

[Zaac]

Nope. If your religion doesn't want you to think for yourself or question anything you should ditch it. People who live in a bubble can't actually make an informed decision about anything...including the decision to become a Christian IMHO. Wath or read The DaVinci Code for your own enjoyment or to satisfy your curiosity, anyone telling you not to is trying to control you. Why would you allow that?

I just had to post this entire Proverb because it answers this perfectly.


1 Listen, my sons, to a father's instruction;
pay attention and gain understanding.

2 I give you sound learning,
so do not forsake my teaching.

3 When I was a boy in my father's house,
still tender, and an only child of my mother,

4 he taught me and said,
"Lay hold of my words with all your heart;
keep my commands and you will live.

5 Get wisdom, get understanding;
do not forget my words or swerve from them.

6 Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you;
love her, and she will watch over you.

7 Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom.
Though it cost all you have, [a] get understanding.

8 Esteem her, and she will exalt you;
embrace her, and she will honor you.

9 She will set a garland of grace on your head
and present you with a crown of splendor."

10 Listen, my son, accept what I say,
and the years of your life will be many.

11 I guide you in the way of wisdom
and lead you along straight paths.

12 When you walk, your steps will not be hampered;
when you run, you will not stumble.

13 Hold on to instruction, do not let it go;
guard it well, for it is your life.

14 Do not set foot on the path of the wicked
or walk in the way of evil men.

15 Avoid it, do not travel on it;
turn from it and go on your way.

16 For they cannot sleep till they do evil;
they are robbed of slumber till they make someone fall.

17 They eat the bread of wickedness
and drink the wine of violence.

18 The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn,
shining ever brighter till the full light of day.

19 But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness;
they do not know what makes them stumble.

20 My son, pay attention to what I say;
listen closely to my words.

21 Do not let them out of your sight,
keep them within your heart;

22 for they are life to those who find them
and health to a man's whole body.

23 Above all else, guard your heart,
for it is the wellspring of life.

24 Put away perversity from your mouth;
keep corrupt talk far from your lips.

25 Let your eyes look straight ahead,
fix your gaze directly before you.

26 Make level paths for your feet
and take only ways that are firm.

27 Do not swerve to the right or the left;
keep your foot from evil. Proverbs 4

Above else guard your heart the Christian is told in verse 23. Whereas the nonBeliever sees the whole DaVinci code thing as an issue of control, the people of God see it as an issue of spiritually growing people to think on the things of Christ.

Christians should not be swayed by this whole "they are just trying to control you" red herring because that's exactly what it is.

Take God's Word and apply it and see if there is just cause for indulging in that which the world thinks is okay.

And any Christian who takes the unGodly advice of those who do not know Christ over the very Word of God is in a heap of trouble.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac, I don't think you're giving people enough credit. Most people possess the ability to discern between what is fact and what is fiction.

IMO, if some cheesy summer blockbuster was enough to seriously challenge one's faith.. the movie wasn't the problem.

I honestly don't think ya'll have given the devil enough credit. He's looking for people to devour. And there are countless millions looking for something to cling to. And there are countless millions who will cling to this lie just as they do to the lies told by other flase teachers and religions.

You can't discern between fact and fiction if you're not standing in God's inerrant truth. Unless you're accepting God's Word as truth, you have nothing by which to discern the truth.

And I think you may be referring to the faith of immature Christians(correct me if I'm wrong). I'm refrring to people who do not know Christ and who will be led to trust in a christ that ain't Christ at all because of the lies of this book/movie.

 

[Mayflower1]

It isn'tdiscerning fact and fiction that is a concern. It is watching something that is definitely not true about my Lord. Other fiction things, yes. When they start down playing Christianity and making it seem like a story that can be misleading to many, then the movie is completely unethical.

 

[Zaac]

So what popular fiction movies are ok to watch under this analysis? (oh, please don't exclude any of the Star Wars movies!)

The crux of this issue lies in why we think we need to watch this stuff, not in which ones are ok.

We're looking to be entertained just like the rest of the world and with the same unGodly food as the rest of the world. This is just one of the reasons why the line has become blurred between who is a Christian and who isn't. Our habits and watching habits are just like the unsaved world.

I read The DaVinci Code and saw the movie. As always, the book was much better. Anyone with half a brain recognizes the plot is a bit of a stretch, but the story is told so well that it makes it believable while you're reading it. This is what good stories set in our world (as opposed to a fantasy world) do - they weave reality with fiction.

Dan Brown's book (and I've since read several others of his) asks the great quesion of "what if?", and weaves a thriller of a story around it. It's a fun read, period. Which is why I agree with Fillerbunny - if this story is going to be such a problem to one's faith, then that person's faith has much, much bigger issues than this story.

you know, if people are juxtaposing this stuff to the truth of God's Word, more power to them. If you're going to do it, learn from it. Spiritually grow. The same approach is taken if you'r ereading the qu'ran or any other book that is not God's Word.

People neglect the affect that all of the things of this world have on the christian's spirit. Why do you guys think we're so accepting of so much junk? Why do you guys think we continually give up ground and do so at the expense of maintaining a Godly Christian witness?

 

[Zaac]

Should Christians go to movies in which there is profanity?nudity?

You know that there is not a small amount of that in the bible, right? And worse things than those are described as well.

Yet this has nothing to do with whether or not we are to indulge in it.

The Bible speaks of fornicative acts also. Are Christians to fornicate?

 

[Pheehp]

now i may have a poor understanding of the devil - please correct me swiftly - but i thought that he was banished by god to hell and thus hell is gods creation. god is the one who sends ppl to hell the devil doesnt devour them, he tempted jesus but this was to break his fathers control and ascend again to heaven. dont forget that satan is an angel.

satan also seems to be the inquisitive and questioning force in the bible which i think is quite healthy, giving us sentience, testing gods desire to show Job as his best servant - btw what was done to Job was horrid and god giving him wealth and new family at the end doesnt bring back the ones god said satan should slaughter to 'test' him. awfully rude.

ofc i may be mistaken in my general knowledge of satan, but anything terrible he did was when god (an all knowing being who would foresee consequences) gave him his powers.

please correct me, so that im able to give this banished angel credit for trying to devour my soul.

 

[Zaac]

If age appropriate then absolutely. Words are only profane because we choose to let them be.

Nothing but cultural relativism in a new skin. Words are profane because they mean what they mean. It doesn't change just because we no longer think the profane to be profane.

And nudity? Well people should probably be familiar with the human form so they don't over-sexualize the opposite gender.

Nice try but it runs counter to what God's Word says to do. He says to flee sexual immorality. And unless you're sitting and watching the familiar human form of your spouse, don't think that you are strong enough to keep your heart from the same sin as countless great men of the Bible.

Full on sex scenes are another matter. I personally don't even like seeing that, but then I can always avert my eyes until that part is over if I really want to see the movie.

Full on sex scenes should be treated the same way as the glimpses of nudity. Why do people think nude scenes started popping up on network tv? It was all out nude scenes, but just enough to entice people's sensibilities. A man's butt here or there. A woman's breast. It's all the same. Desensitize people into thinking that it's okay to look at a brief nude body and the flesh will desire more. It always does.

Sure we can avert our eyes, but will we stop up our ears too?

It's like telling someone you went to watch an X-rated show, but you kept your eyes closed the entire time. As a Christian will they applaud your efforts, or will they think how can he call himself a christian and go to an Xrated movie?

 

[Zaac]

now i may have a poor understanding of the devil - please correct me swiftly - but i thought that he was banished by god to hell and thus hell is gods creation. god is the one who sends ppl to hell the devil doesnt devour them, he tempted jesus but this was to break his fathers control and ascend again to heaven. dont forget that satan is an angel.

Hey there Pheehp. The devil has not been banished to hell. He has free reign of the this world system. But the EARTH belongs to the Lord and the fullness thereof.

God is the one who gives permission. God defines the parameters in which Satan can operate. God is in total control. God has declared that He owns the earth and all of its fullness.

God had the right to the earth when He judged the world with the great flood.

God had the right to drive the wicked inhabitants of Canaan and give it to Israel.

The Bible says that God raises up and casts down all authority according to His purposes (Daniel 2:21 Romans 13:1). The Bible also says that God raises up the wicked for His purposes (Romans 9:16-17).

And it is God's Word that says that satan is looking for people to devour. (1 Pet. 4:8) "Your enemy the Devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour."He is looking for people to mislead and lead to death.

satan also seems to be the inquisitive and questioning force in the bible which i think is quite healthy, giving us sentience, testing gods desire to show Job as his best servant - btw what was done to Job was horrid and god giving him wealth and new family at the end doesnt bring back the ones god said satan should slaughter to 'test' him. awfully rude.

Romans 9:16-17 again.

ofc i may be mistaken in my general knowledge of satan, but anything terrible he did was when god (an all knowing being who would foresee consequences) gave him his powers.

As with us, God did not attempt to make satan obedient to Him. It has to be a choice. And as has been the case for all existence, NO ONE does anything that God does not allow them to do.

His allowing them to do it does not mean that He makes them do it.

 

[FadingWhispers3]

Yet this has nothing to do with whether or not we are to indulge in it.

Exactly my point. You can read about them and *gasp* understand the reason they are there. Just because it is described, does NOT mean you must follow. Merely a work containing evil things is not enough cause to avoid it. Else the bible itself should be avoided, as a matter of consistency, because it contains description of evil things.

But if you watch the Da Vinci Code, or other similarily theologically unsound works, you suddenly lose all sense of right and wrong? You suddenly become cannot distinguish between reality and illusion?

"You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love." Galatians 5:13

All christians know not to indulge the sinful nature... but never forget that you are called to be free.

 

[Pheehp]

"God is the one who gives permission. God defines the parameters in which Satan can operate. God is in total control. God has declared that He owns the earth and all of its fullness.

God had the right to the earth when He judged the world with the great flood.

God had the right to drive the wicked inhabitants of Canaan and give it to Israel.

The Bible says that God raises up and casts down all authority according to His purposes (Daniel 2:21 Romans 13:1). The Bible also says that God raises up the wicked for His purposes (Romans 9:16-17)."

hmmm i need to learn where the quote function is.

what you said above implies that not only does god control all the evil in the world, he causes it for his own agenda - this imho would indicate a maelevolent entity, which he cannot be, this surely is a contradiction.

but you then say he merely allows the devil to devour souls, purely cause he gives choice to all, but was the devil created by god to serve this purpose?

satan you say can influence this earth as much as he desires within his power allotment, i'd like to know what that was, are angels the same as us except have natural immortality and dont reproduce? if so then where is satan influencing ppl to do the evils and sinning - unless god still feeds him to do this - which clearly shows god desires evil to be there and influence ppl. this isnt necessarily their choice to do evil then, surely the will of an immortal weilding gods powers can corrupt any mere mortal. they have no more choice than the antelope being eaten by the lion.

so surely it is poor ethics for god to punish at will when the reason they are punishable is because he is feeding, what im sure he has guessed by now to be, the hereld of sin with his divine might - which cannot be resisted.

good gracious i have spiralled off the topic like mad

 

[Zaac]

Yet this has nothing to do with whether or not we are to indulge in it.

Exactly my point.

But you missed my point that God has already made the point so that we don't have to keep going through the same thing.

You can read about them and *gasp* understand the reason they are there.

But in accordance with God's Word and keeping with His commands, you should not be reading such things.

Just because it is described, does NOT mean you must follow. Merely a work containing evil things is not enough cause to avoid it. Else the bible itself should be avoided, as a matter of consistency, because it contains description of evil things.

Strawman argument. You know why people sit and watch movies with a lot of cussing in it? Because they think they can handle it and that it's not going to affect their spiritual well being. Same thing applies with movies and tv with nudity in them. There is always an excuse. "Oh, it wasn't that much." "That was essential to the plot." "Historically, that's what happened."

"What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.'" Mark 7:20-23

Indulge in that which goes against holiness for the continued sake of entertaining ourselves, and there is indeed a consequence.

But if you watch the Da Vinci Code, or other similarily theologically unsound works, you suddenly lose all sense of right and wrong? You suddenly become cannot distinguish between reality and illusion?

See above.

"You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love." Galatians 5:13

All christians know not to indulge the sinful nature... but never forget that you are called to be free.

All Christians may well know this. But what all Christians know has nothing to do with how an unsaved world perceives them. There's been too much of Christians attempting to be "free" at the expense of doing what the unsaved world is doing and being a stumbling block to the very world to whom they are to be a holy witness.

 

[RealityCheck]

If we are to believe that a divine creator is responsible for creating us as we are, then it is rather silly to think that this same creator willfully gave us bodies that were to be covered up and hidden because the bodies themselves are sinful. What kind of creator is that?

 

[Mayflower1]

Merely a work containing evil things is not enough cause to avoid it. Else the bible itself should be avoided, as a matter of consistency, because it contains description of evil things.

But if you watch the Da Vinci Code, or other similarily theologically unsound works, you suddenly lose all sense of right and wrong? You suddenly become cannot distinguish between reality and illusion?

The Bible gives descriptions of evil things and shows how and why we should avoid it. A work containing evil things just to mislead people, or state something is real when it is not for money, is just evil and shows human greed. You might not lose all sense of right and wrong when you watch the Da Vinci Code, but it if a man feels something is wrong watching a worldly thing like that, then it hurts their fellowship with God and it would be a sin to watch that. I don't watch movies that are good vs. evil except maybe cartoonish rated G shows because people get killed, there is sex, there is sin... A christian shouldn't watch a show like that.

 

[FadingWhispers3]

True.

"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31

 

[Zaac]

hmmm i need to learn where the quote function is.

what you said above implies that not only does god control all the evil in the world, he causes it for his own agenda - this imho would indicate a maelevolent entity, which he

cannot be, this surely is a contradiction.

Nope. That's not at all what it implies. It says that God is God and even though He allows us the freedom of Choice to do what we want, we couldn't do it unless He allowed us to. He could strike us dead and keep us from sinning.

This in no way presents God as a malevolent entity. This presents God as a loving God , who because He is God and sovereign, will still allow that which is evil to do what it wants, while using the outcome to glorify Himself.

If He chooses to allow an Adolf Hitler to exterminate 6 million Jews who may or may not have trusted in His Son Jesus Christ as Savior, and one person comes to faith in His Son as a result, then counter to the beliefs and reasoning of man, He has been glorified.

but you then say he merely allows the devil to devour souls, purely cause he gives choice to all, but was the devil created by god to serve this purpose?

The devil was created with the same purpose as the other angels. He chose another purpose.

satan you say can influence this earth as much as he desires within his power allotment, i'd like to know what that was, are angels the same as us except have natural immortality and dont reproduce?

12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Ephesians 6:12


satan influencs this world and the world system. The earth is the Lord's.


SATAN IS ACCOUNTABLE TO GOD AND SUBJECT TO GOD'S DIVINE AUTHORITY. Look at Job 1:8. The Lord did not ask the question in Job 1:8 because he didn't know. He already knew Satan's dark mind and wished to draw out a confession of his thoughts concerning Job.

SATAN'S POWERS ARE LIMITED. He cannot touch us unless God permits it. Job 1:9-12/ Job 2:6

SATAN IS BEHIND ALL THE EVIL THAT HAPPENS ON EARTH. He promotes ungodliness wherever he can. Job 2:7/ Matt.13:38-39/ John 8:44/I Pet.5:8

SATAN DOES NOT HAVE CERTAIN DIVINE POWERS. He is not omnipresent. Although he has legions of demons working, Satan himself can be only one place at a time. He is not omniscient - ie. he is not all-wise. He cannot read our minds. Satan thought he knew what Job would do but he was wrong. Job 1:11,20-22/ Job 2:4-5,10

SATAN IS UNDER GOD'S CONTROL. He must have divine permission and even with that can only operate to the limits that God sets. Job 1:12/ Job 2:6/John 19:10-11



As for the powers that other angels have, i'll get back to ya on that. But they are spiritual beings and thus are not limited to things as we know them. Their "power" is also limited by what God allows them to do.

if so then where is satan influencing ppl to do the evils and sinning - unless god still feeds him to do this - which clearly shows god desires evil to be there and influence ppl. this isnt necessarily their choice to do evil then, surely the will of an immortal weilding gods powers can corrupt any mere mortal. they have no more choice than the antelope being eaten by the lion.

You're aching for a theology lesson that your mind nor your heart is quite ready for yet. Get the basics down first.


lunch time.

 

[michabo]

Matter of personal opinion really. Of course it will depend on if you believe in God or not.

The book (and probably the movie) aren't atheistic, anything but. They just have a different spin on Jesus.

The problem seems to be:

It isn'tdiscerning fact and fiction that is a concern. It is watching something that is definitely not true about my Lord.

The bible is just a book. We know next to nothing about Jesus. We don't actually have any evidence that Jesus ever existed in the first place. So the DaVinci code is just a likely to be true as any of the gospel stories, or any of the non-cannonical gospels for that matter.

The DaVinci code is definately not "definately not true" It just doesn't agree with your faith.

When they start down playing Christianity and making it seem like a story that can be misleading to many, then the movie is completely unethical.

Why unethical? I can see you don't like it, but this faith seems much the same as yours.

 

[RealityCheck]

If He chooses to allow an Adolf Hitler to exterminate 6 million Jews who may or may not have trusted in His Son Jesus Christ as Savior, and one person comes to faith in His Son as a result, then counter to the beliefs and reasoning of man, He has been glorified.

Okay, see, this is what makes no sense. In your view, God is glorified by the redemption of one person, and the suffering of the other 5,999,999 people makes absolutely no difference to God.

Now that is a rather callous God. To have created all of those 5,999,999 people, plus Hitler, all so one person could serve to glorify God.

That hardly sounds like a God worth worshipping.

Not to mention, why does God need this glory? Who is he being glorified to? Are there other Gods that he can lord this over? Or is it just over us?

 

[RealityCheck]

SATAN'S POWERS ARE LIMITED. He cannot touch us unless God permits it. Job 1:9-12/ Job 2:6

SATAN IS BEHIND ALL THE EVIL THAT HAPPENS ON EARTH. He promotes ungodliness wherever he can. Job 2:7/ Matt.13:38-39/ John 8:44/I Pet.5:8

SATAN DOES NOT HAVE CERTAIN DIVINE POWERS. He is not omnipresent. Although he has legions of demons working, Satan himself can be only one place at a time. He is not omniscient - ie. he is not all-wise. He cannot read our minds. Satan thought he knew what Job would do but he was wrong. Job 1:11,20-22/ Job 2:4-5,10

SATAN IS UNDER GOD'S CONTROL. He must have divine permission and even with that can only operate to the limits that God sets. Job 1:12/ Job 2:6/John 19:10-11

If Satan cannot touch us unless God permits it, and Satan is behind all ungodliness in the world, then the only way Satan can make us "ungodly" is if God allows it in the first place. Therefore, God is really the one making us ungodly.

If Satan is behind all that is evil in the world, but can only do something evil if God permits it, then God is the one that is behind that evil.

Your rules clearly show that God is behind everything Satan does.