The Cyrus Challenge Experiment proposed....

DennisTate · Jun 14, 2019

Freodin said:
As this is posted in the "Physical & Life Sciences" Forum, I guess you have a method to scientifically verify such an experiment?

I seriously doubt it. There's no definite set of either input or output that would do anything to either verify or falsify such an "experiment".

What you propose here can be paraphrased like this: "Do something, and at some unspecified point in the future, something unspecified may or may not happen to you. This unspecified something may be related to the thing you did at the beginning, or not."

For your information, so that you don't think that I am just a scoffer: I did what you requested in your OP, just before typing this post. It is not different from what other Christians told me to do at other occasions. And usually I follow requests like these. I am willing to be surprised.

But if you consider that I am a member on this forum for over seventeen years now, and have had similar encounters with Christians for years before that... and I am still an atheist with opinions not much different from what I started out with... I dare say that your "experiment" might not get to the results you want to see.

It is just after four am here in Nova Scotia... I woke up with a variation on this experiment that actually would be verifiable..........

We Christians are told to pray for political leaders.....

Just as I woke up I remembered an unusual writing from 2015:

Steve Long
13 hrs · Oakville ·

So I haven't posted anything so far about the Canadian election. Tonight I am giving my opinion as a Christian Canadian. I recognize that some of my points may not be seen by all as truly representing that party. I'm not looking for a debate, simply to share my perspectives. My voting history has been split between Liberal and Conservative. So far I haven't felt that an NDP leader or the party has represented my values to garner my vote.

As a Canadian the choices are relatively simple. If you think the economy is the prime issue you'll vote for Stephen Harper and the Conservatives. Most business executives I know vote blue. If you feel that adding to Canada's debt so infrastructure and jobs can be created, then Justin Trudeau and the Liberals is the way you should go. Most small business owners vote red. If you feel that environmental and social issues are the prime issues, then Tom Mulcair is the man and the NDP are your party. Most of our lower income Canadians vote orange.

As a Christian Canadian, the issues in the spirit realm take priority for me.
- Sadly abortion is not a voting topic as I see it. None of the parties is up to changing the current laws in favor of the unborn.
- Religious freedoms are neutral as well. While only the Conservatives will keep the Ambassador of Religious Freedom office, sadly Andrew Bennett's department lacks real power.
- All parties are agreed with about 250,000 refugees each year. The challenge is how that number is divided up. Opening more spots for refugees from Syria is great but that means taking away from other conflict areas.

There are two big issues that I believe affect nations. God blesses nations and curses them on two primary topics. Israel and righteousness (laws of the land).

Stephen Harper has clearly stood on the side of Isreal. Justin Trudeau will sever that relationship and strengthen ties with groups that I see as anti-Semitic and promoting terrorism. Tom Mulcair is in the middle. His wife is Jewish and his in-laws were holocaust survivors so he stands with Israel. At the same time, he doesn't see Hamas and Hezbollah in as negative light as I do. Those who bless Israel are blessed and those who curse Israel are cursed! Numbers 24:9

Righteousness exalts a nation! Proverbs 14:34 So what party will bring in policies that best match the teachings of Jesus and reflect God's laws.
- I look at some of the ads from the NDP and in my view they openly state support for principles that God opposes. Mr. Mulcair has stated that evangelicals are un-Canadian. Not good.
- I have met Justin Trudeau three times. I prophesied to him about 8 years ago that God wanted him as the leader of the Liberal party of Canada. Sadly my last meeting with him in his office was very disappointing. He told John & Carol Arnott and me that evangelical Christians were the worst part of Canadian society. Not good.

- While I am very disappointed that Stephen Harper hasn't changed the abortion laws in Canada with his majority government, I do feel that he matches the moral law of God better than the other party leaders. That he is a committed follower of Jesus is a good thing. Being a follower of Jesus doesn't make one a great leader. But, it does help in the moral issues that come to the desk of Canada's leader!

So, on Monday I will be voting for Stephen Harper and the local Conservative MP.

God bless Canada!

(October 19, 2015)

Now there is no way that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would want for Mr. Justin Trudeau to become national leader of Canada's Liberal Party and then G-d gets a shock as he becomes Prime Minister and behaves in a less than
wise manner for these last four years!????

So.... it seems to me that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is right where Messiah Yeshua - Jesus expected him to be............
so...... if many of us will pray for him....... and ask for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to be given a spiritual experience........

and have a massive change of heart.....
the result would be measurable in a sense!

DennisTate · Jun 14, 2019

I even have a suggestion in mind for the direction that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau be led in that would be win - win - win - win - win both for him... as well as for Canadians.... and especially for the unborn.

Could a Basic Minimum Income for all Americans decrease abortions?

Could a Basic Minimum Income decrease the incidence of abortion being chosen?
Edit

Perhaps by 1 to 10 percent less than the current rate.
1 vote(s)
33.3%
Perhaps by 11 to twenty percent less than the current rate.
0 vote(s)
0.0%
Perhaps by twenty one to thirty percent less than the current rate.
0 vote(s)
0.0%
*
I am thinking that a Basic Minimum Income could decrease abortions by more than thirty percent.
2 vote(s)
66.7%

Change Your Vote

DennisTate said:
I am thinking that the answer to this question is an obvious yes.

One candidate is talking about one thousand dollars per month so an unmarried young woman who is pregnant if she is looking forward to receiving a thousand dollars per month herself and another thousand dollars for her baby, would tend to have much less fear for the future that would pressure her toward choosing abortion over Life.

Jane_the_Bane · Jun 14, 2019

This "experiment" is basically magical thinking in a nutshell. It primes you to connect random, disconnected events into a narrative of your own device, and essentially "filters" your reality.

It's basically the equivalent of believing in Friday 13th, and then "confirming" said belief by noticing all sorts of mishaps on that day.
Or a kid yelling at a barking neighbor's dog to die, and then believing that their words caused it to perish when it has to be put down because of some ailment a few months later.

Or, the milk carton.
I ask the milk carton in my fridge for a promotion at work.
The magical milk carton will answer my request by either yes, no, or wait.
So, when I get a promotion shortly after asking it, it's CLEARLY granted my request.
When I don't get it, the carton has CLEARLY denied it.
And when I get promoted after five years, it's CLEARLY told me to wait.
No matter what the outcome, the milk carton's magical powers are ALWAYS "proven".

ananda · Jun 14, 2019

DennisTate said:
If a Pagan King can be led by the right hand by G-d.....
then why not an Agnostic or Atheist or any non-Christian.....

Let's turn this into an experiment because I literally did this thirty years ago and I can assure you that since literally doing this I have been led to information on many subjects that I know I would never have found out if I had not prayed and asked about this.....

This is actually beginning as a reply to a somewhat humorous thread over on another forum here.... but this could become a full fledged experiment.... and as you see results you can post what happened in your case.

I will explain how I feel my own life was altered by this exact prayer that I began to do back in 1990 after my dad died and I went through something of a philosophical / theological crisis.

Trump/Cyrus/God coin only $45.

Actually.... it is pretty encouraging that somebody could well be Pagan / Agnostic / Atheist and still be led by the right hand by G-d!

1 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 ¶ I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else."

I have a challenge for all the Atheists or Agnostics or Pagans here.........
literally raise your right hand in the air.........
pray and ask the Creator of the Universe to begin to lead you by the right hand and show you where you are wrong about serious things...........

The name Cyrus was given by Isaiah more than a century before ancient King Cyrus came along and accomplished so much for the Creator..... but all of us can learn a lot from this......

More information on how the prophecy of Cyrus could be relevant to 2019 in post #1:

Do you believe a massive Holy Spirit tsunami is coming?

I've done something similar over the years. It led me to the Buddha.

dlamberth · Jun 14, 2019

DennisTate said:
If a Pagan King can be led by the right hand by G-d.....
then why not an Agnostic or Atheist or any non-Christian.....

Let's turn this into an experiment because I literally did this thirty years ago and I can assure you that since literally doing this I have been led to information on many subjects that I know I would never have found out if I had not prayed and asked about this.....

This is actually beginning as a reply to a somewhat humorous thread over on another forum here.... but this could become a full fledged experiment.... and as you see results you can post what happened in your case.

I will explain how I feel my own life was altered by this exact prayer that I began to do back in 1990 after my dad died and I went through something of a philosophical / theological crisis.

Trump/Cyrus/God coin only $45.

Actually.... it is pretty encouraging that somebody could well be Pagan / Agnostic / Atheist and still be led by the right hand by G-d!

1 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 ¶ I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else."

I have a challenge for all the Atheists or Agnostics or Pagans here.........
literally raise your right hand in the air.........
pray and ask the Creator of the Universe to begin to lead you by the right hand and show you where you are wrong about serious things...........

The name Cyrus was given by Isaiah more than a century before ancient King Cyrus came along and accomplished so much for the Creator..... but all of us can learn a lot from this......

More information on how the prophecy of Cyrus could be relevant to 2019 in post #1:

Do you believe a massive Holy Spirit tsunami is coming?

I've also done something similar through the years, and I have have to admit that I feel that my life has also been altered significantly. Mostly in the way that now I see God as alive and vibrant in so many different religions and spiritual trajectories and that there are as many way's to God as there are Human Beings.

DennisTate · Jun 14, 2019

dlamberth said:
I've also done something similar through the years, and I have have to admit that I feel that my life has also been altered significantly. Mostly in the way that now I see God as alive and vibrant in so many different religions and spiritual trajectories and that there are as many way's to God as there are Human Beings.

THAT IS A PERFECT EXPLANATION FOR WHAT I FEEL HAS HAPPENED TO ME AS WELL!!!!! WOW!!!!

DennisTate · Jun 14, 2019

ananda said:
I've done something similar over the years. It led me to the Buddha.

Fascinating!!!!!

cloudyday2 · Jun 14, 2019

DennisTate said:
I have a challenge for all the Atheists or Agnostics or Pagans here.........
literally raise your right hand in the air.........
pray and ask the Creator of the Universe to begin to lead you by the right hand and show you where you are wrong about serious things...........

There is the expression "learn from your mistakes", but somebody I heard claimed that people actually learn from their successes.

So the prayer should say "... lead me by the right hand and show me where I am right so I can nurture those things."

I have a feeling that God would rather get people to do the right thing sometimes even if it is mixed with some wrong things. I believe the Jewish law is more about demanding good things rather than prohibiting wrong things.

DennisTate · Sep 25, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
There is the expression "learn from your mistakes", but somebody I heard claimed that people actually learn from their successes.

So the prayer should say "... lead me by the right hand and show me where I am right so I can nurture those things."

I have a feeling that God would rather get people to do the right thing sometimes even if it is mixed with some wrong things. I believe the Jewish law is more about demanding good things rather than prohibiting wrong things.

I agree........
Rabbi Nachman of Breslov and his grandfather the Baal Shem Tov are very positive in how they approach others.

Arthra · Sep 28, 2019

DennisTate said:
If a Pagan King can be led by the right hand by G-d.....
then why not an Agnostic or Atheist or any non-Christian..

Actually Cyrus the Great was a Zoroastrian... and I would suggest a Monotheist rather than simply a "Pagan King".

https://www.history.com/topics/religion/zoroastrianism

Through Cyrus the Jews returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt the Temple:

"Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, invaded the Holy Land and carried away captive seventy thousand Israelites to Chaldea where the greatest reverses, trials and suffering afflicted these unfortunate people. Then the prophets of God again reformed and re-established the law of God and the people in their humiliation again followed it. This resulted in their liberation, and under the edict of Cyrus, king of Persia, there was a return to the holy city. Jerusalem and the temple of Solomon were rebuilt and the glory of Israel was restored."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 95)

DennisTate · Oct 2, 2019

Yttrium said:
Sure. I've done things like that in the past.

Here is something that I was given / (I believe led to)... about seventeen years after I first prayed the Cyrus prayer.... my version of it anyway.

My two somewhat humorous submissions for $25 million Virgin Earth Challenge.

DennisTate · Oct 25, 2019

Yttrium said:
Sure. I've done things like that in the past.

This video may give some people some extra motivation to know that I am quite serious about this challenge...... and I believe it will work......

Sharon testifies that if we will sincerely ask and pray for CLARITY.... we will be given Clarity.......
if we ask and pray for assistance to love others and be patient with others.... we will be given patience for others....

What we put out into the universe will come back to us.....
as was said at the twenty eight minute mark.....

Sharon Milliman has had a lifetime of amazing spiritual experiences. Visiting the "other side" and life-changing love and wisdom she encountered, Sharon shares her stories and insights in Part I of her Near-Death Experiences. Her book is available at:

DennisTate · Oct 25, 2019

Arthra said:
Actually Cyrus the Great was a Zoroastrian... and I would suggest a Monotheist rather than simply a "Pagan King".

https://www.history.com/topics/religion/zoroastrianism

Through Cyrus the Jews returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt the Temple:

"Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, invaded the Holy Land and carried away captive seventy thousand Israelites to Chaldea where the greatest reverses, trials and suffering afflicted these unfortunate people. Then the prophets of God again reformed and re-established the law of God and the people in their humiliation again followed it. This resulted in their liberation, and under the edict of Cyrus, king of Persia, there was a return to the holy city. Jerusalem and the temple of Solomon were rebuilt and the glory of Israel was restored."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 95)

Yes..... the Zoroastrians were well set up by G-d to have a deep respect for Judaism....

Kylie · Oct 26, 2019

DennisTate said:
This video may give some people some extra motivation to know that I am quite serious about this challenge...... and I believe it will work......

Sharon testifies that if we will sincerely ask and pray for CLARITY.... we will be given Clarity.......
if we ask and pray for assistance to love others and be patient with others.... we will be given patience for others....

What we put out into the universe will come back to us.....
as was said at the twenty eight minute mark.....

The fact that someone really really believes it will work does not make it real.

DennisTate · Oct 26, 2019

Kylie said:
The fact that someone really really believes it will work does not make it real.

So.... are you willing to raise either your right or left hand in the air and pray for Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to take you by the right or left hand much as the Word - Logos took ancient King Cyrus by the right hand?

You will be surprised by the result?

I personally was shown error after error after error after error after error in my own thinking?????

It is a little rough but this is so much better than being in the level of ignorance that I was in back in 1988 when I felt that I understood the Bible and knew pretty much what G-d was doing with all of us?!

Luke 16:8 "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."

1 Corinthians 1:26

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

My humble apologies.....
you already did this... .awesome!!!!

Kylie said:
I actually did this, my husband said it was important to him that I at least give it a go. So I prayed, genuinely too, and guess what?

Kylie · Oct 26, 2019

DennisTate said:
My humble apologies.....
you already did this... .awesome!!!!

Yeah, I did this and got nothing.

Are you ready to admit that maybe your beliefs about this are simply WRONG?

DennisTate · Oct 26, 2019

Kylie said:
Yeah, I did this and got nothing.

Are you ready to admit that maybe your beliefs about this are simply WRONG?

No..... because when I began this back in 1990 I would
describe myself as self-righteous, ignorant and rather dogmatic in my thinking but
twenty nine years later and I am one of the most confused people that I know because
I can now prove that I know virtually nothing on almost any topic by elaborating on known unknowns..... and even postulate some possible unknown unknowns........ which I could not do back in those days...... This can take some time.... but this does work.......

Kylie · Oct 26, 2019

DennisTate said:
No..... because when I began this back in 1990 I would
describe myself as self-righteous, ignorant and rather dogmatic in my thinking but
twenty nine years later and I am one of the most confused people that I know because
I can now prove that I know virtually nothing on almost any topic by elaborating on known unknowns..... and even postulate some possible unknown unknowns........ which I could not do back in those days...... This can take some time.... but this does work.......

Huh?

You admit that you know virtually nothing on any particular topic, and you say you are not the "self-righteous, ignorant and rather dogmatic" person you were back in 1990, and yet you claim with such certainty that this does work?

Sounds like the typical "I know I'm right because it worked for me, so it MUST work for you too" arrogance I see so often from believers.

DennisTate · Oct 27, 2019

Kylie said:
Huh?

You admit that you know virtually nothing on any particular topic, and you say you are not the "self-righteous, ignorant and rather dogmatic" person you were back in 1990, and yet you claim with such certainty that this does work?

Sounds like the typical "I know I'm right because it worked for me, so it MUST work for you too" arrogance I see so often from believers.

You are certainly free to see it that way.....
and for the record Skeptics can be highly ethical......
it was largely Atheists, Agnostics and Skeptics in Israel who
pressured the government to accept the Falasha Jews of Ethiopia into the State of Israel
and air lift thousands of them to their nation out of a very dangerous situation in their homeland of Ethiopia.

Many of the most religious Israelis were not quite so supportive of this highly ethical act .....

Kylie · Oct 28, 2019

DennisTate said:
You are certainly free to see it that way.....
and for the record Skeptics can be highly ethical......
it was largely Atheists, Agnostics and Skeptics in Israel who
pressured the government to accept the Falasha Jews of Ethiopia into the State of Israel
and air lift thousands of them to their nation out of a very dangerous situation in their homeland of Ethiopia.

Many of the most religious Israelis were not quite so supportive of this highly ethical act .....

I love how this doesn't actually address any of the criticisms I raised.

The Cyrus Challenge Experiment proposed....

Will you attempt the Cyrus challenge / experiment / prayer?

No

Yes

I will consider it.... it could be worth a try???

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