The Cyrus Challenge Experiment proposed....

DennisTate · May 27, 2019

Ophiolite said:
Dennis, Dennis, Dennis. Do you not realise what Kylie has just told you? Are you so wrapped up in your bizarre idea you don't recognise when someone is telling you "don't be silly"? If you are going to pray for anything pray for some critical thinking. A family size pack would be best.

I knew that she was being sarcastic but if she actually takes this challenge..... if she literally raises her right hand in the air and asks to be taken by the right hand........ even if her attitude is not great....... it will begin...... because I was angry back in 1990 at the time that I began to pray that way.........

but it was answered even though my attitude was terrible back then.....

It is a seriously bad idea to get angry with God.... | Christian Forums

Back when I was about six years old I heard a hellfire and brimstone sermon by Dr. Billy Graham on TV. Only my grandmother was deeply religious in my family so I had something like nightmares. When I was taught Evolutionary Theory in Grade 2 I felt a deep sense of relief and became an atheist!

When I was about 13 I began to listen to TV evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong who was extremely good at showing that Darwinian evolutionary theory was extremely highly improbable. He also taught the "soul sleep" theory which seemed like a major improvement over an ever burning hell!

I began to read the Bible and finally gave my life to God at 15 (1974 or '75).

.....

My dad, Robert Tate died on January 1, 1990. He had NOT given his heart to Rabbi Jesus/Yahushua so far as I knew.

Around that time I ran into the near death experience accounts through an article in Psychology Today. As I read several books by Dr. Raymond Moody I went into something of a philosophical/theological crisis as I encountered evidence that the "soul sleep" doctrine that I had been taught by evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong and his dad had almost certainly been terribly in error!

I had been fasting on Yom Kippur since the late 1970's and I had always wondered what this verse could possibly mean:

but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza'zel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Aza'zel.(Leviticus 16:10 RSV)

My expectations of Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua were and still are extremely high so certain verses....especially in combination with evidence that there may well be an all too real higher space-time dimensional Auschwitz type of environment stated to make me angrier and angrier with Rabbi Jesus!

Matthew 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Matthew 7:13 ¶
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

So why would a being composed of fundamental energy who has existed from eternity come up with a plan where the majority of people seem to fail???!!!

So long as I believed in absolute soul sleep until the resurrection I was OK with these verses...but now that I was reading about evidence for a real hell....I was really going through a philosophical crisis!

Nithavela said:
Thought of the day: An open mind is like a fortress with its gate unbarred and unguarded.

True.... but I know that I know that I know that it was unusual that I got led to this particular quite surprising video and article:

https://permaculturenews.org/2012/1...ack-where-it-belongs-in-the-earth-tedx-video/

Tony Lovell on Soil Carbon: Putting Carbon Back Where It Belongs – In the Earth (TEDx video)

I love the nice progression of logic in this presentation. Running the numbers like this shows not only how powerful a carbon sink our earth’s soils can be, under the right management, but also just how futile and what a goose-chasing diversion most contemporary technological ‘fixes’ for climate change really are.

When you see the upwardly stepped red line (10:32) showing the seasonal rise and fall of CO2 concentrations (zigzagging seasonally due to the massive intake of CO2 by the northern hemisphere’s deciduous forests over the north’s summer months), try to imagine how that line could peak and begin to step downwardly. It can happen — with holistic education aimed at a widespread effort towards large-scale rehabilitation of our soils; be they deserts, savannahs, scrub lands, set-asides, farms and gardens. Rapid revegetation can put our CO2 rich skies back into balance — pulling the carbon down into our soils, where it becomes a source of fertility, and thus even more vegetation…. The cycle of stupidity, that is our current carbon cycle, can thus become a cycle of stability, health and prosperity.

And, in case you think it can’t be done, consider that we’ve actually cooled the earth before — and not that long ago. Take a look at what is now termed the ‘little ice age’, which ran approximately from 1350 to 1850AD. Over these centuries there were a few significant dips in average global temperatures, and there is a lot of evidence to show that these cooling periods were caused by rapid regional revegetation in Europe, Eurasia and the Americas. In this case the rapid revegetation was caused, not by the work of such educational institutes as our own, but rather because of a sudden die-off of human population numbers, due to disease.

Nithavela · May 27, 2019

DennisTate said:
I knew that she was being sarcastic but if she actually takes this challenge..... if she literally raises her right hand in the air and asks to be taken by the right hand........ even if her attitude is not great....... it will begin...... becaus

True.... but I know that I know that I know that it was unusual that I got led to this particular quite surprising video and article:

https://permaculturenews.org/2012/1...ack-where-it-belongs-in-the-earth-tedx-video/

Tony Lovell on Soil Carbon: Putting Carbon Back Where It Belongs – In the Earth (TEDx video)

Did you know that Mars is made out of copper?

DennisTate · May 27, 2019

Nithavela said:
Did you know that Mars is made out of copper?

No but......

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that raises a planet's temperature: it traps heat by absorbing infrared radiation. Thus, Tharsis volcanoes, by giving off CO2, could have madeMars more Earth-like in the past. Mars may have once had a much thicker and warmer atmosphere, and oceans or lakes may have been present.

DennisTate · May 27, 2019

Nithavela said:
Thought of the day: An open mind is like a fortress with its gate unbarred and unguarded.

I got over thirteen thousand views on this topic....... and at the time that I prayed in an Isaiah 45
verse one manner.... this subject was not on my mind at all????

Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

FrumiousBandersnatch · May 27, 2019

DennisTate said:
It is up to you to judge whether or not your literally sticking your right hand up in the air and praying and asking YHWH and / or Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to take you by the right hand....... has been answered or not?

I did this beginning around 1990....... quite a number of times actually........ and I know that I know that I know that I KNOW that this prayer was answered again and again and again in my life!

One of the changes in my world view that to my thinking is evidence that this prayer was answered in my life is that I had a general and significant decrease in what would have scared me back in 1988 before I prayed that way!

Sounds like classic confirmation bias. With regard to a perceived decrease in 'what would have scared you', it's quite possible that believing your prayers would help was enough; OTOH it could well have happened anyway. There's no way to know.

Such uncontrolled, unverifiable, personal interpretation turns out to be so unreliable as to be effectively useless. That's why the scientific method - tedious, time-consuming, and expensive as it may be - was developed.

Believe it if it makes you feel good - that's the only good reason.

DennisTate · May 27, 2019

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
Sounds like classic confirmation bias. With regard to a perceived decrease in 'what would have scared you', it's quite possible that believing your prayers would help was enough; OTOH it could well have happened anyway. There's no way to know.

Such uncontrolled, unverifiable, personal interpretation turns out to be so unreliable as to be effectively useless. That's why the scientific method - tedious, time-consuming, and expensive as it may be - was developed.

Believe it if it makes you feel good - that's the only good reason.

I do believe it.......
and yes... it does make me feel good......

..... but if you do it all of a sudden you may find yourself fascinated with information that you might not have been able or willing to dig into a few months ago.........

Many Christians would not want to listen to this particular NDE over and over again...... and then listen to some of his lectures on Zohar...... but I really liked them.....

Nithavela · May 27, 2019

DennisTate said:
I do believe it.......
and yes... it does make me feel good......

..... but if you do it all of a sudden you may find yourself fascinated with information that you might not have been able or willing to dig into a few months ago.........

Many Christians would not want to listen to this particular NDE over and over again...... and then listen to some of his lectures on Zohar...... but I really liked them.....

Has there ever been a piece of information presented to you that you wanted to believe in, but you didn't?

DennisTate · May 27, 2019

Nithavela said:
Has there ever been a piece of information presented to you that you wanted to believe in, but you didn't?

Good question....... I want to believe the following........

h. Who goes to heaven?

In the end ... believe it or not (sigh of relief), everyone gets to come home! Heaven is a place of ultimate LOVE. When we have learned how to become individuals that base our entire existence and consciousness around manifesting LOVE, we then become capable of entering the domain of the higher Realms of Heaven. If we do not practice Love, we can only go so far and we will be made to incarnate somewhere out there in God's super Universe again and again (unlimited times) until we learn." (Christian Andreason, near-death .com/)

I really, really, really want to believe that but.........
the word heaven is subject to definition and I am kind of thinking that we can come to view the world as it is right now as being heavenly...... in spite of all the problems on this earth...... so I have serious doubts about what exactly is meant by this powerful and profoundly encouraging message?????

After all... what was the context to:

Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."

Kylie · May 27, 2019

DennisTate said:
Thank you...... one of the other symptoms of being given more "Cyrus Consciousness" will be gaining a greater understanding of other religions....... especially Judaism:

My conversation with the Rabbi.....

What does this have to do with my answer to your post?

Freodin · May 28, 2019

Things happen.

Sometimes things happen because you did something.

Sometimes things happen regardless of what you do.

Sometimes things happen because you planned for them, wanted them to happen.

Sometimes things happen that are completely unexpected and contrary to all your plans.

This is called "life".

FreeinChrist · May 28, 2019

MOD HAT

This thread is closed for staff review.

tampasteve · Jun 3, 2019

MOD HAT ON

Please note, this thread has been moved to a more appropriate forum, the SOP may vary from the original.

Thread is open again.

MOD HAT OFF

awitch · Jun 3, 2019

DennisTate said:
I have a challenge for all the Atheists or Agnostics or Pagans here.........
literally raise your right hand in the air.........
pray and ask the Creator of the Universe to begin to lead you by the right hand and show you where you are wrong about serious things...........

What's my motivation here?
What is the purpose of having to raise your hand?
I don't believe the Universe has a creator.
I don't pretend that my current religious views are necessarily correct.

Zoness · Jun 3, 2019

I gotta say I agree with @awitch as I often do.

Plus with evangelicals extolling Trump as a modern-day Cyrus I can't think of anyone I'd like to be less like.

dlamberth · Jun 3, 2019

Zoness said:
I gotta say I agree with @awitch as I often do.

I have to agree.

And I AM a lover of God.

Robban · Jun 3, 2019

DennisTate said:
If a Pagan King can be led by the right hand by G-d.....
then why not an Agnostic or Atheist or any non-Christian.....

Let's turn this into an experiment because I literally did this thirty years ago and I can assure you that since literally doing this I have been led to information on many subjects that I know I would never have found out if I had not prayed and asked about this.....

This is actually beginning as a reply to a somewhat humorous thread over on another forum here.... but this could become a full fledged experiment.... and as you see results you can post what happened in your case.

I will explain how I feel my own life was altered by this exact prayer that I began to do back in 1990 after my dad died and I went through something of a philosophical / theological crisis.

Trump/Cyrus/God coin only $45.

Actually.... it is pretty encouraging that somebody could well be Pagan / Agnostic / Atheist and still be led by the right hand by G-d!

1 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 ¶ I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else."

I have a challenge for all the Atheists or Agnostics or Pagans here.........
literally raise your right hand in the air.........
pray and ask the Creator of the Universe to begin to lead you by the right hand and show you where you are wrong about serious things...........

The name Cyrus was given by Isaiah more than a century before ancient King Cyrus came along and accomplished so much for the Creator..... but all of us can learn a lot from this......

More information on how the prophecy of Cyrus could be relevant to 2019 in post #1:

Do you believe a massive Holy Spirit tsunami is coming?

Trump became President because he wanted to become President.
President Putin became President not because he especially wanted to.
1:28-1:54,

What motivates a person to want to be President?
Do you think Trump did what you suggest?

IDK,
Trump/Cyrus where is the connection?

DennisTate · Jun 7, 2019

Freodin said:
As this is posted in the "Physical & Life Sciences" Forum, I guess you have a method to scientifically verify such an experiment?

I seriously doubt it. There's no definite set of either input or output that would do anything to either verify or falsify such an "experiment".

What you propose here can be paraphrased like this: "Do something, and at some unspecified point in the future, something unspecified may or may not happen to you. This unspecified something may be related to the thing you did at the beginning, or not."

For your information, so that you don't think that I am just a scoffer: I did what you requested in your OP, just before typing this post. It is not different from what other Christians told me to do at other occasions. And usually I follow requests like these. I am willing to be surprised.

But if you consider that I am a member on this forum for over seventeen years now, and have had similar encounters with Christians for years before that... and I am still an atheist with opinions not much different from what I started out with... I dare say that your "experiment" might not get to the results you want to see.

Aha... this is now in the Christianity and World Religion Forum....... I hadn't even thought of that... but this will really fit in perfectly here because ancient King Cyrus was given ruler-ship over 127 provinces..... each of whom had at least one major religion.

I think that NDE accounts are one common denominator in all nations that are bringing all the peoples of the earth closer together. The Dr. Eben Alexander near death experience that led to his book "Proof of Heaven" has already been translated into forty three languages.

DennisTate · Jun 7, 2019

Robban said:
Trump became President because he wanted to become President.
President Putin became President not because he especially wanted to.
1:28-1:54,

What motivates a person to want to be President?
Do you think Trump did what you suggest?

IDK,
Trump/Cyrus where is the connection?

That is a very nice interview with President Putin......
He certainly is good at doing interviews.

My theory on why President Trump wanted to become President goes back to an event in his life in 1991.

Donald Trump - Wikipedia

Later in 1988, Trump acquired the Taj Mahal Casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey, in a transaction with Merv Griffin and Resorts International.[67] The casino was opened in April 1990, and was built at a total cost of $1.1 billion, which at the time made it the most expensive casino ever built.[68][69] Financed with $675 million in junk bonds[70] at a 14% interest rate, the project entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy the following year.[71] Banks and bondholders, facing potential losses of hundreds of millions of dollars, opted to restructure the debt.

My theory is that President Trump identifies with President Abraham Lincoln and President John F. Kennedy and wants to tackle some issues facing America that was dealt with by the writer Melvin Sickler.

DennisTate · Jun 7, 2019

awitch said:
What's my motivation here?
What is the purpose of having to raise your hand?
I don't believe the Universe has a creator.
I don't pretend that my current religious views are necessarily correct.

All I know is that that is how I did it thirty or so years ago......
and it worked for me.....
so I am just recommending the same thing.

A Cyrus calling on our lives will begin wherever we are...... and take us to the place where we are in cooperation with the ultimate Creator.........

DennisTate · Jun 7, 2019

Zoness said:
I gotta say I agree with @awitch as I often do.

Plus with evangelicals extolling Trump as a modern-day Cyrus I can't think of anyone I'd like to be less like.

LOL!

Diplomacy is not his strong suit.....
but I do believe that fifty years from now we will better understand what his intentions were. I believe that he knows a lot about what was done regarding fixing flaws in central banking policy by President Lincoln and JFK and I believe that he sincerely wishes to follow in their steps........ because he knows that compound interest over many decades creates a seemingly impossible situation to solve..... Which is why Moses was inspired to institute Sabbath years.... and the Jubilee year.

..... Any sort of unusual calling on your life will meet you where you are at.... and will lead you from there...... I personally am so glad that I prayed that way three decades ago....... my life has been pretty awesome.

The Cyrus Challenge Experiment proposed....

Will you attempt the Cyrus challenge / experiment / prayer?

No

Yes

I will consider it.... it could be worth a try???

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