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PaleHorse said:I was merely making your post grammatically correct. The inclusion of the brackets, as SassySDA rightfully noted, is a literary tool commonly used to denote such a correction or clarification. As such, the meaning of your post was not altered one iota.
It does work for me, thanks.HoneyDew said:If that works for ya!! I say this only to prevent the fine art of English usage from being destroyed -- you did not. Too bad you left "and" in, because then your claim to making things grammatically correct might have worked. You know it and I know it. Claiming otherwise is might work for others but, hey ...
It is there as a witness. Nothing more that I want to say.
Peace and enjoy your fellowship, all.
TrustAndObey said:I couldn't agree more! I see so many people claiming to be Adventist with what they consider "new light". The problem is that most of them are trying to cram that new light down other people's throats. The crazy part is, their new light is generally something other churches already hold in great esteem.
I'll be perfectly honest, I find most of it to be a HUGE distraction from the big picture. It's a stumbling block.
For instance, a poster from here posted something in another forum about what "Progressive" Adventists believe and it sounded like a completely different church than the Adventist church.
Regardless of one's beliefs and what "umbrella" they try to squeeze under if they answer a "What do Adventists believe about...." question without clarifying that they do not hold the fundamental belief of Adventists, they are bearing false witness in my opinion. At the very least they should preface their answer with "I'm not a Fundamental Adventist, but here's what *I* believe........." Put their own necks on the chopping block instead of confusing people about what the Adventist church teaches and believes.
If a person knows their views differ from what the mainstream church teaches, then they really are bearing false witness if they try to conceal that fact, and they have to answer to the Maker for that some day. And frankly, some of these "new" ideas are a little frightening (like not holding to the literal 7-day week of creation) and it does upset me when people claiming to be Adventist have decided to go with the majority on that subject............
I used to go to a lot of chatrooms and there were people in there that I knew were Fundamental Belief Adventists that had a completely different view of the trinity than I do.....that didn't make them any less of an Adventist than I am, that's for sure. We still had the same fundamental beliefs, we just differed on what they meant to us personally. Our fundamental beliefs list our doctrine of the trinity in a very vague way, so there are times that subjects like that will be believed differently by different people. HOWEVER, the fundamental belief does not give way to some "out there" interpretation either.
For instance, if an Adventist started claiming that Jesus was satan's brother or something wacky like that, then they can not fit that under one of our beliefs, period. If they do, it's bearing false witness.
Back to my point.....these little discussions about the differences really are a distraction and a stumbling block. I see Traditional Adventists being accused of being "narrow-minded" or "afraid of change" all the time when the truth is, most of us joined the church knowing the doctrine and agreeing to it beforehand. I'm not afraid of change, never have been, and if I felt that other churches taught the Bible better than Adventist churches, I'd go to those churches, not try to change this one.
An online friend of mine went to an Adventist church for years, but recently switched to Messianic Judaism. She was of Jewish bloodline and decided along her learning path that she should keep the biblical feasts. That's not a belief held by the Adventist church, so she didn't want to be a hypocrite I guess.
Since then I was suprised to find out that most Messianics believe a person's "soul" goes to heaven or hell immediately upon death and I know this is something my friend disagrees with. In fact, she's one of the people that I talked to the most about the state of the dead because it was not what I had grown up being taught. She gave me great material to see the truth about what happens to us when we die. However, in order for her to find a church that taught what she liked about the feasts, she had to compromise a fundamental belief of hers and I think that's really sad.
I will say this about her, she never once misrepresented that the Adventist church believes in keeping the biblical feasts. She always prefaced answering a question about them with "*I* keep them, but..........."
Long story short, I think that when a person's fundamental beliefs differ greatly from the Adventist doctrine, they are bearing false witness to say their beliefs are the Adventist's beliefs.
I would like to remind everyone that this is a non-debate area and this forum was set up so that Traditional Adventists could discuss the stumbling blocks before us specifically. I think all of us in here know we have a lot of Work to do, like Vaudois pointed out, and we cannot let ourselves get distracted all the time. CF has features set up so that we can debate this in the bigger section if we so choose, or we can use the features to keep people from distracting us. I think we should use our time here wisely.
Vaudois said:TrustandObey: That was the clearest, tightest and most water-proof sermonette I have heard all day. It was a joy to read...a tour of your heart! Gracias!
Vaudois said:I have talked with folks that have met the CSDA families.
They fall within the pockets of what I have studied for years (and published) about offshoots and the psychology of organized efforts of human-driven reformations.
Those with purely theological differences who are actually born again never seek to destroy other's walk with Christ.
They never attempt to teardown what God has built up.I have had warm realtionships with many of these sorts of godly and active Adventist christians.
Dissatisfaction with Adventism is caused by many factors.
I can focus on one type:
Those that have a "seed in rocky soil" experience. Notice what the SOP points out as the causes and the results of a self-centred, hyper-sensitive religious life:
"It is those who are not engaged in this unselfish labor who have a sickly experience, and become worn out with struggling, doubting, murmuring, sinning, and repenting, until they lose all sense as to what constitutes genuine religion.
They feel that they cannot go back to the world, and so they hang on the skirts of Zion, having petty jealousies, envyings, disappointments, and remorse.
They are full of fault finding, and feed upon the mistakes and errors of their brethren. They have only a hopeless, faithless, sunless experience in their religious life."--Review and Herald, Sept. 2, 1890.
Vaudois said:Oh, I see, Tall. I misunderstand you.Can you cut and paste some commentary notes, please, showing what you mean? I'd like to see that.
Lots of folks don't know it, but in the SDA Commentaries, anything under pages from about 1000 on down were Conference employees; from pp.1000 on up are generally EGW. Although Vol. 7-A is all her.
Right Cliff: the Sanctuary is the key target of Satan and all duped by him, whether knowingly, traditionally or intellectually. Mess with the truth of the Lord's Work in Heaven for us, and you mess with the whole Plan of Salvation, ultimately.
I agree totally, especially those groups who insist that you adhere to every one of their beliefs or you cannot be a part of their group, or say that you are a part of their group.... There was a big fallout in one of the car clubs I happened to be a part of, some of the members felt that everyone who owned this particular car should restore it to look just like it did when it was new... other members felt it was okay to modify the engine, or the wheels, or the paint, it would still be recognized as a legendary car... The members who did not like the modified cars begin to say that those who modified their cars were not true car club members because of those modifications.... it was a complete and utter mess...... they also argued if they should wear their club T-shirts when cruising so they could be identified as a group... again some thought they should, and others said that it wasn't important that they all look the same.... that was a wild group....TrustAndObey said:For instance, take the distraction of a very small group that bands together to appear there are great numbers of them.....it's a great show, but it's not reality. If you disagree with one of them, watch out, the whole lot comes out of the woodwork and will come after you. It's still not reality though, these groups are not attacking people in real life, and it's my opinion they never will. They'd rather hide behind a computer screen. (This is just a general statement, not aimed at anyone on this forum necessarily). I guess there's a growing trend that there is safety in numbers, even if the numbers really are very small.
Small or large, hostility used in any group trying to get others to adhere to their beliefs is just weird. It sends up red flags to me and it's my opinion it should make everyone go "why are they so insistant that I believe like they do?" I do see why some people fall for cult groups though, honestly, if they've never been taught/read the Bible and they just want acceptance or tranquility away from the rest of the world.
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