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The Crucifix a Graven Image?

PreachersWife2004

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Someone brought up a good point elsewhere in a similar debate.

How many people who don't like the crucifixes have a manger with baby Jesus not in it?

I'd be willing to bet, not many.

I have a picture of what Jesus looks like in my head. If I drew that, and then reflected upon that drawing daily in my prayer and worship, would it be wrong simply because my mental picture isn't what he looked like?

Of course not.

HERE is a WELS perspective on crucifixes...
 
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PreachersWife2004

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GratiaCorpusChristi said:
I have to say, though, putting a grandfather clock right at the front of the church is probably the best way to distract congregants.
Especially if it gongs during the sermon!
 
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jinc1019

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All really good stuff. I'll definitely think about your points carefully.
 
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jinc1019

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....but that's the whole point of stylized, non-realistic icons.

I also don't see the problem.

A crucifix is about as real as it can get! I'm not sure your point really addresses the main issue. Even if pictures of Jesus are fine in some ways because they are clearly not meant to be real depictions of him, the crucifixes I see of him seem pretty realistic.
 
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jinc1019

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Hi Dragon, interesting points. First, the difference between respecting secular leaders/flags, etc. is that it isn't within the context of worship. I think that's a huge difference. When you direct worship in any way toward an object, even if you're attempting to show respect to God, you are still, in some limited away, directing worship toward an object, even if it's indirectly.


That's a fair point. But honestly, none of those traditions are very reliable. If they could be proven to be reliable, I would definitely feel more comfortable with the practice.


I can understand this position. I am not opposed to images in general, only images of God in worship...Because God is supposed to be worshipped.
 
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jinc1019

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Thanks for the good source! Very appreciative.

I don't believe, contrary to the teaching of the Westminster Catechism (longer, I believe) that picturing Jesus or even drawing him is wrong. I think the issue is when you put a huge statue or crucifix with Jesus fixed upon it at the center of the alter, where it is the focus of worship, and everyone, as they are worshiping God, are staring at that image. Perhaps it's just my Roman Catholic background, but seeing people bow to a statue, kiss statues, etc. has made me feel very skeptical of this practice. The point of the command in Exodus is to avoid bowing down to, serving, and worshipping an image. Whenever I have seen a crucifix of Jesus in a church, I've seen people bow to it. I think it's unavoidable some will mistreat the crucifix or any other picture of Jesus when it is displayed within the context of worship.

That's just my opinion on it. I don't think I would have a problem being in communion with people who disagree.

-Justin
 
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EvangelCatholic

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I participated in a prayer group at my parish that use art such as the crucifix or icon to help focus the members. Here's an excerpt on the material.


.pdf
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I've just always thought of it as worshipping and praising God, not the statue, but I understand where the reluctance comes from.
 
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jinc1019

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I participated in a prayer group at my parish that use art such as the crucifix or icon to help focus the members. Here's an excerpt on the material.


.pdf

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing the resource.
 
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jinc1019

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I've just always thought of it as worshipping and praising God, not the statue, but I understand where the reluctance comes from.

I don't disagree...I'm not accusing anyone of worshipping a statue. As I said before, my concern is that when we focus any attention to an object that is meant to look like God while we are in the context of worship, we are in some way not focusing on the true God, who is obviously not in any way an object. Again, I'm not sure I think this is such a vital position that I couldn't be in fellowship with those who disagree since I recognize people who do use crucifixes are not really worshipping the crucifix itself.
 
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EvangelCatholic

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Lutherans don't literally see Christ in holy Communion. We see and can now touch a small wafer/ host and dip it into the chalice. For us the very Body and Blood of the Lord. During the Eucharistic Prayer the pastor elevates the holy Elements several times, the last elevation of the host over cup a sacrifice of thanksgiving.

Things like a crucifix and statue are reminders of the Real Presence.
 
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EvangelCatholic

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If we bow and kneel before what we don't see can we not do the same before the very image of Our Lord?

Happy Christ Mass!
 

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