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The Creationist Corner

Jan 23, 2013
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E = energy
m = mass
c = the speed of light in a vacuum

Those are the three components of the equation.

All of which is distracting away from your initial claim that E = mc² means that mass had to exist before the Big Bang, which is not a cogent argument, and is unsupported by evidence.
 
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rockytopva

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A little math...

E = mc2 we can divide and conclude that mass = E/c2

If I have two pounds of Uranium I must first convert to kg's...

2 pounds = 0.9 kg's

The potential energy of 2 pounds of Uranium is...

E = 0.9 * 300,000,000 * 300,000,000

810,000,000,000,000,000 Joules or 225,000,000,000 kwh's

Now to rearrange our formula...

0.9 kg's Uranium = 810,000,000,000,000,000 Joules / c2


So I just declared that all of creation came into existence with a great deal of energy and light.
 
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Jan 23, 2013
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Once more, this:

So I just declared that all of creation came into existence with a great deal of energy and light.

Does not follow from this:

A little math...

E = mc2 we can divide and conclude that mass = E/c2

If I have two pounds of Uranium I must first convert to kg's...

2 pounds = 0.9 kg's

The potential energy of 2 pounds of Uranium is...

E = 0.9 * 300,000,000 * 300,000,000

810,000,000,000,000,000 Joules or 225,000,000,000 kwh's

Now to rearrange our formula...

0.9 kg's Uranium = 810,000,000,000,000,000 Joules / c2
 
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Jan 23, 2013
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Ma = u/c

Ma = Mach number
u = the speed of an object moving through a fluid
c = the speed of sound in that fluid

Therefore I have proven that the Big Bang occurred in a fluid, and that all the matter in the universe at the point of creation was made out of sound.

Or this is arrant nonsense that doesn't logically follow from the premises. I'll allow anybody reading this thread to make up their own minds which is more likely.
 
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Jan 23, 2013
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BTW, rockytopva, what are your thoughts on human beings often needing glasses to correct their vision, because their eyeballs are misshapen? An earlier argument of yours relied on the fact that this is not the case, so I'm interested to see you either demonstrate that this is incorrect and that nobody wears glasses, or to post revised reasoning taking into account the data that you hadn't previously considered.
 
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rockytopva

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I say! All I have to do is gaze at the sun and I see energy and light!

m (mass) = E/c2 (energy and light)

Fission = The mass breaking apart creating light and energy
Fusion = The light and energy merging back to mass

I can also sense its interactions here on earth...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Our brains output is a result of the same E/c2
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

It is the E/c2 that gives all life to flesh. In that great amounts of energy and light makes up the atom we need not worry about the sun running out of E/c2 any time soon!
 
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Loudmouth

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E = energy
m = mass
c = the speed of light in a vacuum

Those are the three components of the equation.

All of which is distracting away from your initial claim that E = mc² means that mass had to exist before the Big Bang, which is not a cogent argument, and is unsupported by evidence.

When a particle interacts with it's anti-particle the result is that ALL of the mass is converted into energy. The mass goes away.
 
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Loudmouth

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Ma = u/c

Ma = Mach number
u = the speed of an object moving through a fluid
c = the speed of sound in that fluid

Therefore I have proven that the Big Bang occurred in a fluid, and that all the matter in the universe at the point of creation was made out of sound.

Or this is arrant nonsense that doesn't logically follow from the premises. I'll allow anybody reading this thread to make up their own minds which is more likely.

All we are showing you is that energy can be converted into mass, and vice versa. The evidence for the Big Bang deals with galactic redshifts, the CMB, and other tests.
 
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Jan 23, 2013
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m (mass) = E/c2 (energy and light)

Once more - c is the speed of light in a vacuum, not light itself.

Fission = The mass breaking apart creating light and energy

You are correct that nuclear fission produces Gamma rays.

Fusion = The light and energy merging back to mass

This is incorrect. Nuclear fusion is when nuclei smash together with great speed and create a new, larger, nucleus. This reaction also emits Gamma rays.
In that great amounts of energy and light makes up the atom we need not worry about the sun running out of E/c2 any time soon!

The sun is a fusion reactor, powered by hydrogen. If you were to worry about it running out of anything, it should be hydrogen. But you're right that we don't have to worry, or at least not for about four billion years.
 
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When a particle interacts with it's anti-particle the result is that ALL of the mass is converted into energy. The mass goes away.

All we are showing you is that energy can be converted into mass, and vice versa. The evidence for the Big Bang deals with galactic redshifts, the CMB, and other tests.

I don't see how either of these posts are in any way relevant to the arguments I've been making in this thread.
 
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rockytopva

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The sun is a fusion reactor, powered by hydrogen. If you were to worry about it running out of anything, it should by hydrogen. But you're right that we don't have to worry, or at least not for about four billion years.

That is because of the light and energy so cleanly sewed within the atom. There is also E/c2 of the spiritual variety...

Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Every human being is alive because of some degree of spiritual E/c2 burning away in that heart of his. Even the most unbelieving atheist has some kind of love and hope inspiring him to move forward.
 
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I don't see how any of your arguments actually deals with the evidence that supports the BB theory.

If you're referring to post #205, then I feel you may rather have missed the point I was trying to make. Re-read rockytopva's reasoning and evidence for mass having existed before the Big Bang, then re-read post #205, and take special note of the part where I refer to it as "arrant nonsense".
 
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That is because of the light and energy so cleanly sewed within the atom.

Yes, which would not be true if nuclear fusion was the process that you claimed it was.

When your entire line of reasoning is based on a premise that is wholly incorrect, how can that not give you any pause for thought as to your conclusions? And how is it possible for someone who is connected to the internet and therefore who has easy access to wikipedia to make such erroneous statements in the first place? Why would you describe a well-understood physical process without first doing the most basic research as to what that process actually entails?
 
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rockytopva

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The creation of man came with...

Senses - Touch, taste, sound, sight, smell, and a sense that can detect spiritual light (faith, hope, charity, joy) and energy (motivation, warmth, love)
Sensory memory banks - stores what is sensed
Conscience thought - controlled reasoning
Unconscionable thought - uncontrolled reasoning

The light of the body is the eye (imagination): therefore when thine eye is single (fixed on one thing), thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil (uncontrolled imagination), thy body also is full of darkness. - Luke 11:34


Immanuel Kant- Tinted Sunglasses: Elements of Philosophy (page 67-70), our mind organizes experiences in different ways. The mind (reason) and the senses both make important contributions to knowledge. Immanuel Kant’s reflection on Physics led him to develop a new theory of knowledge that combines rationalism and empiricism into a new synthesis called critical philosophy. Kant agrees with Hume that knowledge begins with experience, but disagrees to the experience sensual limitations. “Though our knowledge begins with experience, it does not follow that it rises out of experience. Just as a person wearing sunglasses sees things differently, so the human being sees things according to that structure.” It is therefore an important thing to study on things that paint life in dynamic perspective.

Kant distinguishes the mind in two dimensions, sensibility and understanding. Sensibility is the minds way of receiving representation of things (intuition- insight), Understanding is how the mind actively thinks about those objects. Theories about the forms of intuition and the categories of the understanding lead to distinguish phenomena (appearances as filtered through our senses and understanding) from noumena (things themselves as they exist independently from the mind which we can never know). The emotions are the results of man’s filtered view on reality. If our perspective is dark then the whole man is darkened. If our perspective is light than the whole man is filled with light. Finding correct perspective therefore is as good as the correct sensory input… Watch what you put in!

Unconscionable thought - Have you ever forgotten something and have told yourself that you would think of this later. Then you will be occupied at something else and suddenly your unconscience mind will spit out the answer? The unconscience mind also produces dreams while sleeping.

George Handel had a vision for Handel's Messiah and the music was completed in 24 days of swift composition. I have got to think that this mans subconscience had worked this for years even unkown to Handel. When the subconscience worked the Messiah and then relayed it to Handel's conscience thought it was just a matter of days before this movement came into reality.

Your mind is an incredible resource... Watch what you put in it! A simple 'I can't do it' will turn everything off!

Senses_zpstkpr43hj.png
 
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rockytopva

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A creature similar to the hummingbird is the bee, which has the tiniest of brains! That small brain can perform incredible feats such as flight, an eye that can see more of the infrared spectrum than we humans, the intelligence to build a nest and exist socially, and the intelligence to gather and process honey.

Nectar contains about 80% water, along with complex sugars. Left in its natural state, nectar would ferment. In order to store the sugars in a usable and efficient state, bees convert the nectar into honey. Honey contains only 14-18% water. Pound for pound, honey provides a much greater energy source than pure nectar. The actual process of transforming the flower nectar into honey requires teamwork. Older workers do the foraging and bring the nectar back to the hive. There, younger hive bees complete the task of turning it into honey.

First, worker bees fly out from the hive in search of nectar-rich flowers. Using its straw-like proboscis, a worker bees drinks the liquid nectar and stores it in a special stomach called the honey stomach. The bee continues to forage, visiting hundreds of flowers, until its honey stomach is full. Within the honey stomach, enzymes break down the complex sugars of the nectar into simpler sugars, which are less prone to crystallization. This process is called inversion.

With a full belly, the worker bee heads back to the hive and regurgitates the already modified nectar for a hive bee. The hive bee ingests the sugary offering and further breaks down the sugars. It then regurgitates the inverted nectar into a cell of the honeycomb.

Now, the hive bees beat their wings furiously, fanning the nectar to evaporate its remaining water content. As the water evaporates, the sugars thicken into honey. Once the honey is finished, the hive bee caps the beeswax cell, sealing the honey into the honeycomb for later consumption. A single worker bee produces only 1/12th of a teaspoon of honey in its lifetime. Working cooperatively, thousands of worker bees can produce over 200 pounds of honey for the colony within a year. - http://insects.about.com/od/antsbeeswasps/f/beesmakehoney.htm

Pollination is the first step in the process of sexual reproduction in plants. In pollination, a male pollen grain is transferred to the female part of a flower, germinates and fertilizes the ovule. All of these steps must occur for a seed to develop. Without pollination, the production of many of the seeds and fruits that we eat would not be possible.

As in all sexually reproducing organisms, mating in plants results in offspring that contain genes from both parents. Unlike animals, plants cannot seek each other out. They must rely on wind, water, or animals to move pollen between plants. Wind is responsible for pollinating many staple crops such as wheat and corn, but many Ontario crops rely heavily or completely on insects for pollination. Bees are the most commonly discussed pollinators, but many other insects and even vertebrates can play a role (see Pollinators).

Insects that visit flowers are in search of pollen and nectar. Most flowers produce nectar just to attract pollinators. The higher the concentration of sugar in the nectar, the more attractive it is to pollinators. Nectar can also contain other useful compounds such as lipids, amino acids, vitamins, and minerals. Pollen is high in protein, carbohydrate, lipids, and vitamins. It is valuable to some adult insects as a food source, and especially to bees looking for food for their young (larvae). A nectary (nectar-producing organ)is usually positioned within the flower so that visitors to the flower have to contact the reproductive organs to access the nectar.

Plants that can self-fertilize (or self-compatible) can still benefit from cross-pollination because it can lead to more or higher quality fruit. In these plants, self-pollination is often an emergency mechanism in case cross-pollination does not occur. Because plants prefer to invest their resources in cross-pollinated offspring, self-pollination often produces fewer fruit ,or fruit that is smaller or misshapen.

All plant reproduction requires that pollen be transmitted to the female organ, or pistil. (The exception is agamospermy, in which a plant produces viable seed without being fertilized.) Pollen is produced by the male organ, called the stamen. The stamen consists of an anther atop a long filament. Pollen grains released by the anther are picked up by visiting insects or the wind. When a pollen grain reaches the female pistil (which may be on the same or a different flower), it germinates on the stigma, forming a pollen tube that grows through the style and into the ovary. The fertilized ovules then develop into seeds.

Flowers may have male or female organs (called imperfect flowers), or both (referred to as perfect flowers). Examples of crops with perfect flowers include apples, cherries and legumes; crops with imperfect flowers include squash, cucumber and corn. These terms should not be confused with those that describe the plant as whole. A species may have individual plants that produce either male or female flowers (dioecious, from the Greek for 'two houses'), or plants that produce both (e.g., hermaphrodite or monoecious, 'one house'). In those species that are monoecious, individual plants may have their male and female functions in separate (imperfect) flowers, in perfect flowers, or they may have two or even all three of the flower types. Monoecious plants may also have sexual functions separated in time. This means that the pollen production and stigma receptivity to the pollen occur at different times. - http://www.pollinator.ca/bestpractices/flower_anatomy.html

All of which requires some kind of intelligent design for the whole animal / flower relationship to become a reality.
 
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Kylie

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A creature similar to the hummingbird is the bee, which has the tiniest of brains!

...

All of which requires some kind of intelligent design for the whole animal / flower relationship to become a reality.

Argument from incredulity. It's a logical fallacy and doesn't hold up.
 
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rockytopva

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I work as a Lab Technician at a large factory. I thought it a healthy thing to mix honey in with my green tea. Within the month I find all these little ants in my desk drawer, in which I have not seen in years, especially in late fall! They had scented out my honey... And I work in a facility encased in concrete and steel!
10_1e.gif


I consider that quite the feat for an animal with only 250,000 brain cells! And that brain must also build imagery of its surroundings so it knows the way back home! These are also social creatures who build large colonies. In which programming I believe instilled inside the ant by God the Father himself.
 
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Kylie

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I work as a Lab Technician at a large factory. I thought it a healthy thing to mix honey in with my green tea. Within the month I find all these little ants in my desk drawer, in which I have not seen in years, especially in late fall! They had scented out my honey... And I work in a facility encased in concrete and steel!
10_1e.gif


I consider that quite the feat for an animal with only 250,000 brain cells! And that brain must also build imagery of its surroundings so it knows the way back home! These are also social creatures who build large colonies. In which programming I believe instilled inside the ant by God the Father himself.

Repeating the same logical fallacy doesn't make it true...
 
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