The Creation Took SIX LITERAL DAYS - Discuss

Bushido216 · Oct 19, 2003

Buck72, are you saying that I should close my eyes to the mountains of evidence for evolution and blindly believe in YEC?

Buck72 · Oct 19, 2003

That is no proof that it is ment to be taken literally.

Late_Cretaceous:

There is no proof for it to NOT be taken literally either.

Besides what is "proof" have to do with FAITH. This is a Christian forum and not once have I had the priviledge of a theo-evo use scripture to support any of their beliefs. Gentlemen, may God bless His word, and He will. I'd like to see someone in the theo-evo department please explain:

1. Why dismiss the Word?
2. Why dismiss faith for lack of evidence?

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Buck72 · Oct 19, 2003

Buck72, are you saying that I should close my eyes to the mountains of evidence for evolution and blindly believe in YEC?

Bushido,

I do not ask that anyone turn off their brain, nor would the Lord Himself approve of mindlessness of any kind, far from it. The debate here is a spiritual one that is based on the acceptance or denial of the Bible as the ipso facto Word of God.

The Bible does not contend with mounds of scientific evidence...especially since that evidence (physical matter) was made from God. The understanding of the physical matter has been concluded by men.

My argument is simply why buy the human conclusion and dismiss the Divine Conclusion?

Somebody is just plain wrong, and I will bet all I own and the title to my own soul, wife, and firstborn that God is the One who is right. Man has a tendency to mess things up pretty badly.

Isa 45:21 "Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.

Bushido216 · Oct 19, 2003

You just contradicted yourself.

You cannot except evolution and Genesis if you take Genesis literally.

k?

Buck72 · Oct 19, 2003

You just contradicted yourself.

You cannot except evolution and Genesis if you take Genesis literally.

k?

I thought I was clear enough. Contradicted by supporting both evolution and Genesis? I did not support them both. I support Genesis, I do not support evolution, nor is there support for evolution ANYWHERE is the Bible. The argument does not even appear once.

Bushido216 · Oct 19, 2003

So since the Bible says Evolution is false, Evolution is.

But what if we, in the future, developed a T.V. that could show the history of the earth. We watched some chimpanzees evolving away from their fellows into human beings.

Would you still not believe it?

Buck72 · Oct 19, 2003

Bushido216 said:
So since the Bible says Evolution is false, Evolution is.

But what if we, in the future, developed a T.V. that could show the history of the earth. We watched some chimpanzees evolving away from their fellows into human beings.

Would you still not believe it?

The Bible does not say: "Evolution is false". It simply does not support it anywhere at any point, nor can it be extracted from scripture at any level of interpretation in any language. It simply is not there.

We already have a T.V. that shows the history of the earth. It is called "Nova" and the "Discovery Channel" none of which offer the slightest bit of regard for the Creation perspective. These are agencies that need $ to sustain their programming. $ comes from government grants, universities, and private enterprise (commercials) and investors. Since Creation is clearly unpopular, regardless if it is true or not, Nova and Discovery are NOT going to make any $ showing an unpopluar idea.

The rest of your argument Bushido is extreme speculation. Maybe if H.G. Wells' "Time Machine" becomes a reality, we can take a trip together and see for ourselves. Until then, we are left with a simple choice:

1. God created the heavens and the earth.

2. We evolved from a complex universal phenomena (Big Bang) that took 2.5 billions of years to evolve the most complicated, delicate structures imaginable from an unknown origin, without purpose or cause.

Bushido216 · Oct 19, 2003

Buck72, your arguements make no sense. This is SO Orwellian in nature it's pathetic.

You are ignoring all of the evidence for evolution simply because it's not in the Bible? Your nuts!

And maybe the Science shows don't show creationist programs because creation isn't science. Ever think of that?

And my T.V. wasn't a T.V. show, it was a device.

Bushido216 · Oct 19, 2003

Buck72 said:
2. We evolved from a complex universal phenomena (Big Bang) that took 2.5 billions of years to evolve the most complicated, delicate structures imaginable from an unknown origin, without purpose or cause.

P.S., that's a strawman arguements. For reference, this is a strawman:

Big Bang theory and Evolution are separate. Evolution makes no attempt to explain the beginnings of the universe or this planet. It merely explains The Origin of Species.

The age of the universe is put at about 20 billion years I believe, the planet is thought to be about 6 billion, and life about 4.5 billion.

Have a good day.

Buck72 · Oct 19, 2003

This is SO Orwellian in nature it's pathetic.

This is not Orwellian - it is the Bible. Your side could be Orwellian but I would not say that exactly.

You are ignoring all of the evidence for evolution simply because it's not in the Bible? Your nuts!

The truth does hurt, although it does set one free once they accept it (John 8:32).

Sorry I made you so upset that you would call me nuts. My arguments are not my own - I've been quoting the BIBLE, and telling you it simply does not support evolution. You've responded with me a picture of a strawman telling me that I'm nuts.

No offense taken Bushido, the Apostle Paul was called such for his understanding of scripture:

Act 26:24 While Paul was saying this in his defense, Festus *said in a loud voice, "Paul, you are out of your mind! Your great learning is driving you mad."

I've also stated that people who call themselves "Christian" had better be prepared to give account as to why they would disregard the word. Please see previous postings in this thread.

Jer 8:9 "The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, And what kind of wisdom do they have?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Psa 107:43 Who is wise? Let him give heed to these things, And consider the lovingkindnesses of the LORD.

Pro 1:5 A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel,

Pro 9:8 Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you, Reprove a wise man and he will love you.
Pro 29:9 When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, The foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest.

I've had Theo-Evo folks both rage and laugh at me since I've been "darkening" this forum. I'm just quoting the Bible here guys...may I please get some explanation as to why that is "nuts" in a Christian forum? Anyone?

LewisWildermuth · Oct 19, 2003

Buck72, there is no mention of semiconductor theory in the Bible either. But yet here we are typing on computers that run because of semiconductor theory, should we walk away from the computer because the basics that allow it to operate are not mentioned in the Bible?

What about germ theory? should we never see a doctor since it is not mentioned in the Bible?

Bushido216 · Oct 19, 2003

Thankyou, Lewis, you've just articulated what I've been trying to for a while with no success.

TheBear · Oct 19, 2003

TheBear said:
Hmmmm.....

Matthew 5:27-30

27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Is this to be taken literally?

Was that to be directed to me or Buck72?

This was directed to all who think we are to take every word in the Bible - literally.

Bushido216 · Oct 19, 2003

Oh.

In that case I wouldn't take it literally. Our body parts aren't autonomous from the rest of the brain, the brain controls our body.

So if we sin, we ought to cut out our brains, but that'd be suicide, which is against the Bible.

So I guess we're in a Catch22.

Or maybe Matthew meant that whatever impulses cause us to sin should be stemmed.

TheBear · Oct 19, 2003

Actually, those were Christ's words.

Bushido216 · Oct 19, 2003

Heh, then Christ meant whatever I said.

That, however, is not the point.

TheBear · Oct 19, 2003

The point I have made by posting that scripture may have been missed.

I don't know of any Christians running around with their eyes plucked out or their hands chopped off, because they took that passage literally. It obviously must mean something other that what is literally stated. But there it is, in black and white.... the same with the Genesis account of creation.

wblastyn · Oct 19, 2003

Buck72 said:
wblastyn - the Hebrews were the most advanced in many areas of medicine and understanding of microbial infections that even European doctors were up until the mid-1800's. Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis in Austria, 1845 conducted a study on why so many women were dying in hospitals after giving birth. His conclusions were based on the poor hygiene of the doctors, who would wash the blood off their hands in a stagnant bowl and proceed to the next patient. The Hebrews undertsood microbial contamination even though they perhaps couldn't describe them like we can since they had no microscopes, but what they did have was the Word of God detailing hygenic procedure: Lev 15:13.

Even in America 120 years ago modern medical science failed to comprehend how important the blood was to sustaining life. The Hebrews knew that over 3,000 years earlier. Had the doctors that bled people with supposedly "bad humors" (anyone seen that SNL skit "Medieval Barber" with Steve Martin?) understood that the "life of the flesh is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:11).

Leviticus 13 outlines further procedure to handle the sick and the dead, certainly to avoid microbial infections, and contaminants. Had these procedures been observed by the 14th century scientists, the Black Death could have only taken the lives of a few. But they made the flawed assumption that the air had "bad spirits". Ouch.

Yes, but they did not actually know microbes existed. So if they didn't have the knowledge of our basic biological science how could they have understood evolution. People today don't even understand evolution.

wblastyn · Oct 19, 2003

Buck72 said:
The Bible does not say: "Evolution is false". It simply does not support it anywhere at any point, nor can it be extracted from scripture at any level of interpretation in any language. It simply is not there.

There are a lot of things the Bible does not mention, big deal.

We already have a T.V. that shows the history of the earth. It is called "Nova" and the "Discovery Channel" none of which offer the slightest bit of regard for the Creation perspective. These are agencies that need $ to sustain their programming. $ comes from government grants, universities, and private enterprise (commercials) and investors. Since Creation is clearly unpopular, regardless if it is true or not, Nova and Discovery are NOT going to make any $ showing an unpopluar idea.

Of course they don't offer any regard of the "Creation perspective", creationism was falsified over 100 years ago by Christian geologists. It would be like them having a documentary on why the earth may be flat.

1. God created the heavens and the earth.

2. We evolved from a complex universal phenomena (Big Bang) that took 2.5 billions of years to evolve the most complicated, delicate structures imaginable from an unknown origin, without purpose or cause.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, the First Cause has not been identified yet, so it could may well have been God. God could have used evolution to create all the various form of life on earth, and it looks like He did.

Ark Guy · Oct 19, 2003

Arthur Dietrich said:
No where in the Bible does it world was created in six days. There is no hebrew word for 'day'. A 'day' in hebrew could be millions or billions of years. I'm not sure..I don't know hebrew well, so I don't know what it equals exactly.

Did you ever read the 10 commandments...it says it there. Go check it out.

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