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The Covenants

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ddub85

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@ CoffeeSwirls

I am just now looking into Covenant theology, having found too many holes in Dispensationalism to follow it any longer. I have not ventured too far into New Covenant theology yet, but am currently of the mind that Christ came to fulfill the same covenant, not begin a new one. I realize that He said "this cup is the new covenant" but am not sold on the idea that this means something totally new.
I am in agreement with you about Christ coming to fulfill the same covenant, especially when you consider what Jesus said next;

Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

I don't believe we've seen that day as of yet.

God Bless!
 
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ddub85

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@ TubaFour

Here's my two cents. Human beings at all times are either under the covenant of works or the covenant of grace. If they're under the former, they stand condemned, but if under the latter, they're under grace.

I think you're exactly right.
Therefore, to ask under which covenant are we saved is to miss the structure of the covenants, I believe.

I see what you mean. But the problem is that the Bible does discuss an old and new covenant. Dispensational theology insists we're under the new covenant, but I can't find any support for that in the Bible. I'm trying to pin down the thoughts of Covenant theology on the issue.
I think this issue has caused alot of confusion concerning future events and the entire structure of eschatology.

God Bless!
 
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TubaFour

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ddub85,

Dispensational theology in my opinion confuses covenants, dispensations, law and gospel. Depending on which version of dispensationalism you are dealing with, you'll get different answers to this question, I believe. Although I am not an expert on covenant theology, structurally, it is very simple.

As you know there are three overarching covenants, Redemption, Works, and Grace. The covenant of redemption does not include man. The other two covenants are with man. The covenants that are commonly referred to such as the Abrahamic, Noahic, Mosaic, Davidic, New, etc., fit in one or both covenants of Works and Grace.

Also, the distinction between "Law" and "Gospel" is a very important hemeneutical distinction in order to understand Covenant Theology and Reformational theology in general. A rough definition of these terms is that Law stands for everything God demands from mankind (not just the OT, since there is Law in the NT). Gospel is every promise that God makes to mankind, i.e., what He graciously provides on our behalf.

I don't know exactly what you mean that you can't find anything in the bible to support that we're under the new covenant. The new covenant was prophesied by Jeremiah and established by Christ. If you're a believer you're part of the new covenant. The old covenant is generally a reference to the Mosaic Covenant which in Hebrews we're told is obsolete and fading away.

IMO, the old covenant has been abrogated fully and finally at Christ's death and resurrection. So, even though the Jews continued to offer sacrifices until 70 A.D., the covenant under which they operated was no longer in force. It had been fulfilled by Christ. (He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets.)

Blessings,

aL
 
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