The Conservative Case for Gay Marriage

[Axel2.0]

OK . . .I am conservative and I will tell you why I am opposed to same sex marriage.

Let me say to start - I really do not care what others do in their personal lives. It is between them and God. I am not their judge. Homosexuality (in my eyes) is a sin as any other - no worse than any other.

The fact that I see it as a sin and many do not is the core of the problem. If we can never agree on that, we will never agree on this issue. So, I know I will never agree with many as many do not believe in the Bible as truth.

The reason I am against state recognized marriage between two members of the same sex is because then society (the state) is saying it is OK to be sinful and that being gay is normal.

As a Christian, I think being gay is a sin and not "normal" or how God would like us to live our lives. If gay marriage is passed, it normalizes sinful behavior. If I vote for gay marriage, I am voting for sin against God. I am not sure that non-Christians can appreciate how difficult it would be to vote against God's Word.

I believe the more the upcoming generations see it as normal, the more they will fall into the sin. As society becomes more sinful they turn further from God. If we become a society that wishes to kick God out, He may just grant us our wish.

Since I do not want to live in a society that does not value God, I cannot support gay marriage.

I do not want to argue the issue. I am just stating my reason for being against gay marriage. You do not have to agree. I just ask you respect my right to an opinion.

that might be the best argument i have ever heard against state recognized gay marriage.

although i disagree, i can appreciate the argument.

 

[Texas Lynn]

...in Greek you supplied an ending to the word to indicate whether you are talking about a male or a female -- in the case of a bed you would use a feminine ending if speaking of a woman's bed and a male ending if referring to a man's bed.

Thus indicating married people did not share beds, further evidence that concepts of marriage have changed enormously over the last few million years and negating the absurd argument 'marriage has always been as it is now."

 

[Texas Lynn]

It seems in some states, it still is illegal (Massachusetts).

Laws regarding incest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd be surprised if the number of convictions amount to more than can be counted on one hand.

 

[Texas Lynn]

What do you mean by that?

What you are arguing against is the very nature of civil rights laws in general.

I believe ones right to sale to whom they want to overrides another's right to buy from who they want to.

As I said above...

For example a high class restaurant does not have to allow people who do not fit their dress code in (and sometimes, the dress code is so high, requiring clothes so expensive, it is impossible for poorer families to afford it).

True, but personal dress is not according to civil rights laws a protected class. Race is, for example, which is why refusal serve African-American in some restaurants of the Denny's and Cracker Barrel chains resulted in much trouble for them.

 

[lawtonfogle]

What you are arguing against is the very nature of civil rights laws in general.

Civil rights cover a much greater set of things than just whom personal businesses can interact with. You know, voting, schools, racism at a governmental level.

As I said above...



True, but personal dress is not according to civil rights laws a protected class. Race is, for example, which is why refusal serve African-American in some restaurants of the Denny's and Cracker Barrel chains resulted in much trouble for them.

What kind of trouble that wouldn't be the same for telling someone they are too poor? Socioeconomic status is almost as dead set as ones race. Something along the lines of 95% or more people will die belonging to the same socioeconomic class they were raised in as a child.


As a side note, I think socioeconomic class is a far greater indicator of need of protection than race is. No matter how I have looked at it, a poor class family, be they black or white, is far more disadvantage than a middle class family, be they black or white. Yet a great deal of the aid out there is applied based on race, no socioeconomic class. For example, in college, there are numerous social support programs set up to help minorities, but to my knowledge, none set up to help those from the poor class.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I'd be surprised if the number of convictions amount to more than can be counted on one hand.

Which is probably because it is pretty hard to actually find out about these things, because consenting incest relationships are both rare, and when they happen, they can easily be hidden. Even so, it does not change the fact that it is illegal, at least in some states.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

OK . . .I am conservative and I will tell you why I am opposed to same sex marriage.

Let me say to start - I really do not care what others do in their personal lives. It is between them and God. I am not their judge. Homosexuality (in my eyes) is a sin as any other - no worse than any other.

The fact that I see it as a sin and many do not is the core of the problem. If we can never agree on that, we will never agree on this issue. So, I know I will never agree with many as many do not believe in the Bible as truth.

The reason I am against state recognized marriage between two members of the same sex is because then society (the state) is saying it is OK to be sinful and that being gay is normal.

As a Christian, I think being gay is a sin and not "normal" or how God would like us to live our lives. If gay marriage is passed, it normalizes sinful behavior. If I vote for gay marriage, I am voting for sin against God. I am not sure that non-Christians can appreciate how difficult it would be to vote against God's Word.

I believe the more the upcoming generations see it as normal, the more they will fall into the sin. As society becomes more sinful they turn further from God. If we become a society that wishes to kick God out, He may just grant us our wish.

Since I do not want to live in a society that does not value God, I cannot support gay marriage.

I do not want to argue the issue. I am just stating my reason for being against gay marriage. You do not have to agree. I just ask you respect my right to an opinion.

You have the right to your opinion but that is worlds away from justifying the extrapolation of your theology onto others. Many religious camps claim eating pork is a sin so by letting companies manufacture and sell that product society is saying that sin is okay. Why? Because none of us own exclusive rights to the theological hammer.

It does not matter if one views anything as a sin. In order to justify inequality through the law one must present a persuasive reason why that inequality is justified. We don't let five year old kids drive. Technically that is inequality until we examine why. Obviously five year olds are generally not developed physically nor mentally enough to accept the responsibilities associated with driving. A clear case of putting others in danger by allowing them to drive is sufficient to justify the inequality of the laws.

Nobody has met that standard when it comes to same sex marriage. I have yet to see or hear of a debate on the issue where theology does not become the centerpiece and as already explained, that leaves a void in justifying denying grown consenting adults equal protection of the laws.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Dp

 

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

You have the right to your opinion but that is worlds away from justifying the extrapolation of your theology onto others.

Nobody has met that standard when it comes to same sex marriage. I have yet to see or hear of a debate on the issue where theology does not become the centerpiece and as already explained, that leaves a void in justifying denying grown consenting adults equal protection of the laws.

This is why Conservative Christians will never be in agreement with other groups on this issue.

My post simply stated my opinion on why I oppose gay marriage and why I vote the way I do on it. People vote for all kinds of different reasons. My reason is shaped by my theology. So anyone that does not share my theology will think I am not justifying my opinion/vote. But to me it is completely justified. I see gay marriage as doing harm to society (which I already explained) where as others do not see the harm. Since opposing sides will not meet in the middle on this one, we will never agree.

 

[Nathan Poe]

This is why Conservative Christians will never be in agreement with other groups on this issue.

My post simply stated my opinion on why I oppose gay marriage and why I vote the way I do on it. People vote for all kinds of different reasons. My reason is shaped by my theology. So anyone that does not share my theology will think I am not justifying my opinion/vote. But to me it is completely justified. I see gay marriage as doing harm to society (which I already explained) where as others do not see the harm. Since opposing sides will not meet in the middle on this one, we will never agree.

nevertheless, so long as you accept that nobody's theology guides the rule of law, then we're still left with the inescapable conclusion that there's no legal reason to ban same-sex marriage.

And incidentally, I found something in your opinion that seems a bit inconsistant.:

Let me say to start - I really do not care what others do in their personal lives. It is between them and God. I am not their judge. Homosexuality (in my eyes) is a sin as any other - no worse than any other.

The fact that I see it as a sin and many do not is the core of the problem. If we can never agree on that, we will never agree on this issue. So, I know I will never agree with many as many do not believe in the Bible as truth.

Ok -- it looks here like you're ready to leave the religious/theological implications out of it. But then...

The reason I am against state recognized marriage between two members of the same sex is because then society (the state) is saying it is OK to be sinful and that being gay is normal.

As a Christian, I think being gay is a sin and not "normal" or how God would like us to live our lives. If gay marriage is passed, it normalizes sinful behavior. If I vote for gay marriage, I am voting for sin against God. I am not sure that non-Christians can appreciate how difficult it would be to vote against God's Word.

I believe the more the upcoming generations see it as normal, the more they will fall into the sin. As society becomes more sinful they turn further from God. If we become a society that wishes to kick God out, He may just grant us our wish.

Since I do not want to live in a society that does not value God, I cannot support gay marriage.

I do not want to argue the issue. I am just stating my reason for being against gay marriage. You do not have to agree. I just ask you respect my right to an opinion.

And then you put it right back in. Weird, huh?

 

[nolongerhome]

Weird, huh?

I think it is very weird. I mean, when someone starts out by saying "I really do not care what others do in their personal lives", I don't expect them to then outline why they think the government should interefere in the personal lives of others because of their own personal feelings about morality... because that would be entirely contradictory, wouldn't it?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Civil rights cover a much greater set of things than just whom personal businesses can interact with. You know, voting, schools, racism at a governmental level.

Of course but public accomodations go in that list also.

 

[BigBadWlf]

You have the right to your opinion but that is worlds away from justifying the extrapolation of your theology onto others. Many religious camps claim eating pork is a sin so by letting companies manufacture and sell that product society is saying that sin is okay. Why? Because none of us own exclusive rights to the theological hammer.

It does not matter if one views anything as a sin. In order to justify inequality through the law one must present a persuasive reason why that inequality is justified. We don't let five year old kids drive. Technically that is inequality until we examine why. Obviously five year olds are generally not developed physically nor mentally enough to accept the responsibilities associated with driving. A clear case of putting others in danger by allowing them to drive is sufficient to justify the inequality of the laws.

Nobody has met that standard when it comes to same sex marriage. I have yet to see or hear of a debate on the issue where theology does not become the centerpiece and as already explained, that leaves a void in justifying denying grown consenting adults equal protection of the laws.

 

[BigBadWlf]

This is why Conservative Christians will never be in agreement with other groups on this issue.

My post simply stated my opinion on why I oppose gay marriage and why I vote the way I do on it. People vote for all kinds of different reasons. My reason is shaped by my theology. So anyone that does not share my theology will think I am not justifying my opinion/vote. But to me it is completely justified. I see gay marriage as doing harm to society (which I already explained) where as others do not see the harm. Since opposing sides will not meet in the middle on this one, we will never agree.

Exactly what harm is being experienced by Massachusetts, Iowa, Spain, Canada, And South Africa? Can you provide concrete examples of this harm?

And while you are at it…have you ever paused to consider the harm prejudice and discrimination causes?

 

[Conservativation]

I didnt read 15 pages.

But everyone has the same rights under the law. That is not disputable. The equal protection argument doesnt work.

BUT I will say those who moralize about gay marriage from a Christian standpoint, while they would crawl across molten glass to defend andyone and everyones divorces for any reason whatso ever are badly misappropriating their efforts. The double standard is not unnoticed by the proponents of gay marriage and frankly they have a very valid point.
Its folly to rant about gay marriage while marriages in church drop off at a higher rate than out of church....begs the question what exactly are so called marriage defense laws defending?

Though i personally oppose gay marriage, I unashamedly say its my belief system and wont try and force anyone to see it my way, and that coupled with the absurd divorce epidemic that is accountable to the exact same God....well, I just cant march with blatant hypocrisy

 

[Conservativation]

This is why Conservative Christians will never be in agreement with other groups on this issue.

My post simply stated my opinion on why I oppose gay marriage and why I vote the way I do on it. People vote for all kinds of different reasons. My reason is shaped by my theology. So anyone that does not share my theology will think I am not justifying my opinion/vote. But to me it is completely justified. I see gay marriage as doing harm to society (which I already explained) where as others do not see the harm. Since opposing sides will not meet in the middle on this one, we will never agree.

Relatively speaking....and I do mean RELATIVELY....because its about numbers.....what harms society more right now, today, gay marriage or divorce?

If you say gay marriage you will seriously have to explain that, in light of the statistics on fatherless children and all the pathology that goes with that. There is simply NO comparison.

I am fully agreed with your theology. But we are dealing in a secular world where hypocrisy DOES impact our so called moral standing.....we, the church have ZERO standing about marriage, none, zip, nada.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

This is why Conservative Christians will never be in agreement with other groups on this issue.

My post simply stated my opinion on why I oppose gay marriage and why I vote the way I do on it. People vote for all kinds of different reasons. My reason is shaped by my theology. So anyone that does not share my theology will think I am not justifying my opinion/vote. But to me it is completely justified. I see gay marriage as doing harm to society (which I already explained) where as others do not see the harm. Since opposing sides will not meet in the middle on this one, we will never agree.

I believe your claim of harm was based on acceptance would lead to more people falling into that sin. That's nothing more than repeating why you are against it. You need to provide tangible evidence of harm.

Saying you believe the harm is found in endorsing the sin is problematic both by legal and theological standards. Do you realize we do not simply sin? We are sin. Period. If God has allowed US law to give you equal rights in spite of your Sins what right do you have to deny others their Rights based on their Sins?

 

[Belk]

I didnt read 15 pages.

But everyone has the same rights under the law. That is not disputable. The equal protection argument doesnt work.

Actually it is disputable. I dispute it as do many others.

BUT I will say those who moralize about gay marriage from a Christian standpoint, while they would crawl across molten glass to defend andyone and everyones divorces for any reason whatso ever are badly misappropriating their efforts. The double standard is not unnoticed by the proponents of gay marriage and frankly they have a very valid point.
Its folly to rant about gay marriage while marriages in church drop off at a higher rate than out of church....begs the question what exactly are so called marriage defense laws defending?

Though i personally oppose gay marriage, I unashamedly say its my belief system and wont try and force anyone to see it my way, and that coupled with the absurd divorce epidemic that is accountable to the exact same God....well, I just cant march with blatant hypocrisy

Well said sir.

 

[Texas Lynn]

But everyone has the same rights under the law. That is not disputable. The equal protection argument doesnt work.

Heterosexuals can marry their true love, except in certain jurisdictions, LGBTs can't. Thus, in states and countries which prohibit gay marriage, equal protection does not exist.

 

[reverend B]

there is no reason to vote against this proposed legislation as a Christian. we have a country designed to protect our right to believe what we like. if you believe in the inerrancy of the bible, then your law is already established. by voting others their rights, you are simply voting to protect your own. follow God's law as you see it to have been established, and as an american allow others to do the same.