The common thread in Trump's defenders

[Eternally Grateful]

I have never in my life seen so much hate and distrust against a person

while the most evil president this country has ever had is sitting in the oval office.

I am dumbfounded, especially in a christian chatroom..

Trump is not a saint, His mouth gets him in more trouble than anyone I have ever seen.

Again, I would much rather have Desantis, You ask me, it is a sad day when these are our only two options.

But to think the man in office, who is making my country a laughing stock of the world. is great

what a joke!!

 

[Brihaha]

whether what he did is wrong or not is beside the point.

This is the problem. His followers reward him for his bad behavior. The law punishes him. The fact Mr Trump is facing accountability and punishment at all is inconceivable to folks who have been snowballed by this maga charade.

Donald Trump committed 34 felonies to hide his devious actions from voters. This fact is hardly beside the point, it is the entire point of accountability. Punishment is a deterrent, while rewarding bad behavior reinforces the behavior.

 

[essentialsaltes]

What was he charged with? Last I heard. there was no specific charges.

You heard wrong. This same question has been asked and answered dozens of times. He was charged with 34 counts of

Falsifying Business Documents

If this was really a crime, charges would have been brought years ago.

It might have been, if Trump didn't spend years fighting the grand jury subpoenas (from 2019) for the business documents, taking the case to the Supreme Court twice (and losing).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is the problem. His followers reward him for his bad behavior. The law punishes him. The fact Mr Trump is facing accountability and punishment at all is inconceivable to folks who have been snowballed by this maga charade.

1. I am not a follower. I just happen to think he is the better of the two options (by far)
2. If they were charging other people who did the same thing on the other side and holding them accountable as well. You would have no argument from me.

Donald Trump committed 34 felonies to hide his devious actions from voters.

Um, No he did not. This will not pass on appeal.

This fact is hardly beside the point, it is the entire point of accountability. Punishment is a deterrent, while rewarding bad behavior reinforces the behavior.

lol. THEN PUNISH BIDEN AND CLINTON FOR ALL THEIR CRIMES

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I distrust "video" or "audio" proof since a lady I know, a self-defined "Christian nationalist," told me the JFK, Jr. and Princess Diana are still alive and under protection, but that she heard them speak on Patriot Radio.

She also claims that Biden died in 2019.

According to a nurse practitioner (!) who examined another friend, the current Biden is a hologram.

The video and audio proof from conservative media have zero credibility.

Maybe Elvis, Michael Jackson and Prince still live! As long as we are dreaming.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You heard wrong. This same question has been asked and answered dozens of times. He was charged with 34 counts of

Falsifying Business Documents

lol.. So he is guilty of doing what almost every person who runs a business has done?

Sorry my friend.. That is not a felony

It might have been, if Trump didn't spend years fighting the grand jury subpoenas (from 2019) for the business documents, taking the case to the Supreme Court twice (and losing).

lol..

Its still a sham..

And its called going after your political opponent..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Maybe Elvis, Michael Jackson and Prince still live! As long as we are dreaming.

But its ok for Biden to lie as much as he does? Is that what you are saying?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

A few things

1. He did nothing wrong according to the law. paying hush money is not against the law. Media outlets and politicians have been doing it for years.
2. He paid his lawyer and marked it as a payment for services.. Nothing wrong with that, Hillary Clinton did the exact same thing
3. What you see is dual justice system. They are charging Trump with anything and everything. Yet people on the left who have done the exact same thing, nothing happens to them
4. we also have the following fact
a. The judge should have recused himself. He paid millions to the Biden campaign, He had a conflict of interest
b. These charges, if any, should have been brought years ago. Anyone who thinks it is not suspicious that these charges were brought right in the middle of a campaign where your party leader is losing. is biased themselves.
c. The place where the charges were brought were in a place where most of the jurors would be anti trump. I am sure they thought they did a service to their country by voting the way they did in an attempt to stop their enemy.

I can go on and on and on with the many issues of this whole ordeal. and how dangerous it is for this country right now.

what we are seeing only happens in communist nations.. Which is where we are headed. socialism can not work unless you take your enemy down.. The people will nto stand for it..

whether what he did is wrong or not is beside the point.

Gosh. Too bad you and all the other posters in this forum parroting these same talking points weren't convicted felon Trump's defense attorneys. Why do you think they missed all these obvious defenses and let their client be convicted?

 

[Fantine]

I have never in my life seen so much hate and distrust against a person

while the most evil president this country has ever had is sitting in the oval office.

I'm a little confused. I think you've reposted something from 2019...

Thankfully, he departed, kicking, screaming, and bloviating on 1/20/21.

 

[Brihaha]

1. I am not a follower. I just happen to think he is the better of the two options (by far)
2. If they were charging other people who did the same thing on the other side and holding them accountable as well. You would have no argument from me.

Um, No he did not. This will not pass on appeal.

lol. THEN PUNISH BIDEN AND CLINTON FOR ALL THEIR CRIMES

How about you heed the serenity prayer.
It's completely OK to accept reality you cannot change. I am not against punishing others for their criminal behavior if evidence warrants a conviction. I think we are done with this conversation. Peace

 

[essentialsaltes]

And its called going after your political opponent..

NY DA Cyrus Vance subpoenaed documents in 2019 because he was going to run for president against Donald Trump?

 

[Brihaha]

Listen hard. Not one says he didn't do the acts for which he was convicted.
Instead, they say:
He shouldn't have been charged.
The crimes were committed too long ago (2016).
He has not been convicted of federal election fraud. Not yet!
They quibble about NY state law.
They say the trial should have been in Staten Island.

But not one says, "He never did those things."

And let's face it, those things were 110% immoral and unethical.

I have been noticing another common thread among Trump defenders. They are worn out. I don't believe humans denying reality is sustainable for as long as Donald Trump needs them to.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I have been noticing another common thread among Trump defenders. They are worn out. I don't believe humans denying reality is sustainable for as long as Donald Trump needs them to.

It must be so exhausting to always have to be defending this man. For that reason alone I wish he’d lose and these people can be released from this curse, as I see it. He’s like some awful punishment for the American right wing and they don’t even see it.

 

[Yarddog]

He should have recused himself.

again, 2 wrongs do not make a right

That is correct and judge Cannon should have recused herself in the Trump documents case because he appointed her to the job making hundreds of thousands of dollars. All far worse than Merchan's $15.

 

[rambot]

Nope. She paid someone off. and put it in her ledger as legal expenses

But you did bring up a point. She has classified material on her personal email. Yet NOTHING happened. Same with Joe Biden, and having classified material in his house.

Imagine. Being interrogated several times, for 13 hours and them still finding nothing.

And then, 7 years later, still being convinced.

 

[Brihaha]

It must be so exhausting to always have to be defending this man. For that reason alone I wish he’d lose and these people can be released from this curse, as I see it. He’s like some awful punishment for the American right wing and they don’t even see it.

Mr Trump is punishment for our entire nation. But I can't feel pity for those who still insist on buying the lies he's peddling at this point. I have no problem forgiving people or having compassion for people with an ounce of humility. But pity is not something I offer people very often.

People can choose to detach themselves from Donald Trump or stay in their co-dependant fantasy world. They do see it. I lived in denial myself for years. It's baffling and cunning stuff. I know my life improved immediately after I quit denying I am an alcoholic. I went to an AA meeting and have managed to abstain from alcohol for over 10,000 days in a row. These people aren't even addicted to a substance, but a silly man child. No, pity is not something I can offer them. Forgiveness is in the offing though.

 

[Hans Blaster]

lol.. So he is guilty of doing what almost every person who runs a business has done?

You think most business owners falsify business records? On what basis do you think that?

Sorry my friend.. That is not a felony

In New York falsifying business records to conceal another crime is a felony.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

It must be so exhausting to always have to be defending this man. For that reason alone I wish he’d lose and these people can be released from this curse, as I see it. He’s like some awful punishment for the American right wing and they don’t even see it.

I told y'all months ago. DJT is a roach motel. Crawl in with him and you can't crawl out. So you just stay there until inevitable suffocation.

 

[A2SG]

I have never in my life seen so much hate and distrust against a person

while the most evil president this country has ever had is sitting in the oval office.

-- A2SG, they really need to make those things more durable....

 

[JSRG]

I think it has LONG been since proven that there was a stolen election.. Missing votes. Votes that went one way that where changed to go another way.

I've posted it before, but I'll do it again. I feel this article (by someone who cares for neither Trump nor Biden, if it matters) does a quite good job explaining that there was no stolen election:

Biden Really Won

I'm not happy about it, but facts don't care about my feelings.

decivitate.substack.com

The whole thing is worth reading, but I'm also aware a lot of people--including myself sometimes, I'll admit--never bother to click on links to read articles, so I'll include what seems to me to be the most important part of it, though the rest is rather good too (as is noted, there were three reasons before this):

That brings me to the fourth way we know Biden won: the demographics.

The core of the stolen-election theory runs something like this: Trump got enough votes to win, but the Democrats hated Trump so much that their voters and officials manufactured Biden votes (and shredded Trump votes) in deep blue counties, especially big cities, in order to pull ahead of Trump late in the night. Trump won Wisconsin, until Milwaukee officials realized Biden was losing and started creating fraudulent votes for Milwaukee. That’s how Trump himself has always described the big-picture of the theory. It does have a certain obvious plausibility. It’s not far off from the stories we all heard growing up about Mayor Daly stealing elections in Chicago. And Democrats really did hate Trump enormously.

However, if the election was stolen, this definitely isn’t how it was done.

We know this because of the demographics.

Trump actually did better in the cities in 2020 than he did in 2016. His margin among black voters was the best of any Republican since Bob Dole in 1996. He trounced McCain and Romney among Hispanics, drawing the best GOP Hispanic numbers since Bush 2004. Overall, he gained 2.1% in big cities compared to his 2016 result. He even gained a point in Indian Country, which is some of the toughest territory for Republicans.

If Trump’s performance in cities improved compared to 2016, then that probably isn’t because of fraud. It would be really weird for Milwaukee County officials to fake an election result by giving more votes to Trump than he got the last time. Even if they did do fraud there, it would be the most incompetent fraud in history!

But, hang on, if Trump gained ground in the biggest Democratic strongholds on the map, how the heck did he lose?

Trump lost because Biden consistently eroded Trump’s margins in the suburbs, the exurbs, and even in the rural Midwest. These erosions weren’t huge, and they didn’t generally flip the local results. For example, in 2016, Trump won the exurbs by 15 points! In 2020, he still won the exurbs… but, this time, only by 12 points. Trump won by the skin of his teeth in 2016. Add up these losses, and they outweigh his gains in the cities, and he loses the election.

Take Waukesha County, the very comfortable county composed of people who don’t want to live in Milwaukee. This Republican stronghold has delivered so many elections to Republicans at the eleventh hour that it became a global punchline. Trump won Waukesha County, by a very comfortable 21 points! Waukesha is MAGA country!

But he won it by 28 in 2016.

This pattern replicates itself everywhere. Donald Trump didn’t lose the election in the cities. He lost the election out in the sticks, in deep-red Republican territory, because a small but decisive fraction of Republicans who supported him in 2016 (and Romney in 2012 and McCain in 2008) decided at some point between 2016 and 2020 that they were fed up with Donald Trump. They voted for Biden.

“But hang on, James! We’re looking for fraud here! We can’t just assume these Waukesha County figures are accurate!”

Well, alright, fair enough, so let’s go with that. Our original theory was that local Democratic officials conspired with downtrodden urban voters to stuff a handful of dense urban ballot boxes, boosting Biden’s margin in the cities and giving him the extra votes he needed to win the election.

However, the crucial counties where Biden unexpectedly ate into Trump’s margins are Republican counties. So now our theory has to be that local Republican officials conspired with a bunch of well-to-do white people who are spread out across dozens of miles of sprawling exurban estates to stuff ballot boxes for Joe Biden, a candidate those same officials overwhelmingly… opposed? Why would they do this? Why, at the very least, would they cover up for it?

Maybe the Biden campaign paid them off? A cool $100,000 check deposited in a bank account will silence a lot of mouths.

If that’s so, though, why’d they do the same thing in Canadian County, Oklahoma? That’s another exurban county, very similar to Waukesha in a lot of ways… except that it’s in very nearly the reddest state in the Union. Trump won every county in Oklahoma, including the urban counties like Tulsa, and it was never remotely in play. Nevertheless, we see the same pattern: Trump won the county by 51 points in 2016, but by only 43 points in 2020. It’s ruby-red either way, and you wouldn’t look twice at it if you were just eyeballing an election map, but that erosion happened across the country.

This leaves us with two possible theories:

1. The Biden campaign faked this consistent suburban/exurban erosion in Trump support by suborning tens of thousands of county elections officials, ballot counters, and poll workers, the vast majority of them Republicans who publicly profess love for Trump, not just in the crucial states, but in a vast conspiracy that carpeted the land from sea to shining sea, and yet somehow didn’t leak at all, not even once, even as the White House scoured the country, searching for the slightest scrap of evidence of voter fraud. These faked suburban/exurban votes delivered Biden to the White House. OR:
2. During his time in office, President Trump alienated a small fraction of his former supporters, so they voted against him (or stayed home)—which, in a close election, was enough to make Biden the winner this time.

To me, the second theory is much more plausible on its face. It also fits with all the other evidence we have looked at.

I know that a sufficiently inventive theorist can always imagine a way to fit the evidence into the theory (rather than discarding a theory when it is defeated by the evidence), but, honestly, I would be interested in hearing the narrative where this theory makes anything like sense.

If we reject the theory that the Biden campaign blanketed Oklahoma and Wyoming with voter fraud in order to mask its implausibly difficult frauds in exurban Wisconsin, then we know that Biden won.