the closed thread on "True" Orthodoxy

[jckstraw72]

hey i just wanted to say that i think its pretty lame that we have a rule that doesnt allow Michael to state his views -- like it or not, Ecumenism, the calendar, the schism churches, are issues in the modern Orthodox world and we should be allowed to talk about them.

 

[MishaM]

My friend,

While I agree with your point I can also see the thought behind those that do not want to cause discord among the brethren. I have lived within the "walls" of the TOC movement and while I am in no way condoning them and their views (I hold a few of the more traditional practices) it is hard enough for me to deal with the demons of my past and try to stay away.

I think that the real issue here is not one of the Calendar or of Ecumenism, I think the main issue here is that we do not live out the examples pof those that come before us. As others have said there are others who lived among us in the times when all of these things were coming about but they did not allow it to hamper their Faith and Praxis.

We can only do the best that we can do with the situations we have.
There are alternatives to schism. Nothing is perfect but neither are we. I dunno if there is a point ot what I am saying here, it's just that this thread (as well as its originator) have laid heavy on me since I saw it.

Been there... done that....

 

[jckstraw72]

i agree that to schism is wrong, but i dont think we should close threads about it.

 

[Matrona]

Should we close them when one is trying to entice others to schism?

 

[SeraphimSarov]

I think it's necessary to take a hard-line stance here. Schismatic churches aren't Orthodox churches, close as they may be outwardly. Maybe a subforum would be appropriate for those belonging to and who wish to discuss such churches, but to discuss it here as if these churches were canonically Orthodox is a mistake, in my opinion.

Edit: sorry if I seem harsh, but this issue has been hitting pretty hard to close to home lately....

 

[Oblio]

Or those who wish to pontificate on 'World Orthodoxy' can go post over on the 'Schismatics are Us' forum.

 

[MishaM]

It is also a matter of the fact that when they are allowed to be discussed openly and without some sort of check and balance that these conversations often become very unOrthodox, let alone unChristian. There are fora out there that let one side be heard over the other and we can see the response. Thongs get very heated and very harsh.

As one trying to teach my wife the TRUTHS of Orthodoxy these forums are places THE LAST PLACES I would say were safe for her in her fragile state. Even for me these places are not good because they lead to the occasion of sin when I question the unity of the Church....

 

[Greg the byzantine]

Let's close this one too

 

[Oblio]

I we want to discuss calendars, or pews, or praying with others, fine. I just don't think that we should allow the promotion of Schism, or the potential prostelysation of the faithful to do so.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

It is also a matter of the fact that when they are allowed to be discussed openly and without some sort of check and balance that these conversations often become very unOrthodox, let alone unChristian. There are fora out there that let one side be heard over the other and we can see the response. Thongs get very heated and very harsh.

As one trying to teach my wife the TRUTHS of Orthodoxy these forums are places THE LAST PLACES I would say were safe for her in her fragile state. Even for me these places are not good because they lead to the occasion of sin when I question the unity of the Church....

Ja, zhis is one of my slips.

 

[Oblio]

Ja, zhis is one of my slips.

 

[Sothron]

I suggest that those wish to lead others to schism can do so in the proposed debate subforum. I do not want inquirer's coming to the main board and seeing something Old and New Calendarists debates just needlessly confuse them and their own journey into exploring real Orthodoxy.

 

[Orthosdoxa]

Right.

And the problem isn't even being Old Calendarist - I'm quite sympathetic to the idea of OC, personally. The problem is being schismatic. He could still be canonically Orthodox AND be on the OC. Voila!

 

[MichaelNZ]

Right.

And the problem isn't even being Old Calendarist - I'm quite sympathetic to the idea of OC, personally. The problem is being schismatic. He could still be canonically Orthodox AND be on the OC. Voila!

Yes, but the canonical Orthodox churches are in communion with the Patriarch of Costantinople, who thinks Islam is great and even quotes from the Koran. Why should he quote that satanic rubbish when there are plenty of the Holy Fathers that he could quote?

And if you support ecumenism, that all "Christian" groups are good and have truth, why are you so opposed to traditional, old-calendar Orthodoxy? We are Christian, too.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Is anyone in TAW super ecumenical? I think we are respectful of non-Orthodox but not of us seem to be touchy-feely or wanting to go worship with them and stuff.

M.

 

[Sothron]

Is anyone in TAW super ecumenical? I think we are respectful of non-Orthodox but not of us seem to be touchy-feely or wanting to go worship with them and stuff.

M.

I have never seen any of the members here express the slightest urge to "modernize" and enumenicize the principles and tenets of the Church.

 

[MishaM]

Wow.. that was a bad slip of the fingers. My apologies.

 

[OIT]

hey i just wanted to say that i think its pretty lame that we have a rule that doesnt allow Michael to state his views -- like it or not, Ecumenism, the calendar, the schism churches, are issues in the modern Orthodox world and we should be allowed to talk about them.

I agree that's why I try to avoid this forum .

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I agree that's why I try to avoid this forum .

And yet you grace us today when we are having a conflict in our little community I don't wish to be unpleasant but if you wish to participate in our conflicts at least extend to us your friendship when things are calm as well. We don't need people coming in to stir the pot.

M.

 

[Orthosdoxa]

Folks, here's where a debate board might come in handy. I feel like I'm helping spread manure on what I want to be a safe haven, but I'm going to answer Michael.

who thinks Islam is great and even quotes from the Koran.

Source?

If true... Bishops make mistakes, too. Look at history. The answer was not breaking off and in the spirit of Protestantism, forming a new church - it was the laypeople creating an uproar over episcopal abuses! Since when has the Orthodox church moved quickly? It sometimes took generations to correct wrongs. Was the answer to form 4 dozen splinter groups in the meantime?

Besides, he is not our pope. We hold him in high regard, but he's just another bishop (despite how the MSM refers to him in every single story ever written ) Submit to your OWN bishop, and pray for the Church. Don't leave it.

Why should he quote that satanic rubbish when there are plenty of the Holy Fathers that he could quote?

Agree with every word. But what you're doing is exactly the wrong thing in response to it. You're running away, outside the Church, rather than staying in and fighting for the Church.

And if you support ecumenism, that all "Christian" groups are good and have truth, why are you so opposed to traditional, old-calendar Orthodoxy? We are Christian, too.

Eh. Support ecumenism... Not exactly a fair statement. I acknowledge other Christian groups have some truth - but I want to bring them all into Orthodoxy. If the fellows I corresponded with for two years in learning about Orthodoxy had said, "You're a heretic! You're not even a Christian!" - I would not be Orthodox today, most likely. I would have run. But they acknowledged my love for Jesus and gently shared with me that the Church He started was still here. THAT, my friend, is the point of ecumenism...and I daresay for most Orthodox... the only point. Not to say all Christian groups are equal. They are not. But we must reach out to them where they are if we ever want them to find Orthodoxy. Nobody responds well to a snotty, closed-off group that won't even acknowledge their faith at all.