the church

[cheezit]

I may get reamed and whatever else for this question, but I have to ask it anyway for my own personal knowledge.

I always hear the Catholic church being refered to as THE church. Does the Catholic church, as a whole, believe that they are the only true church? And if so, why? Am I, as a Baptist, going to Hell because I am not a Catholic?

The longer I am around these forums and the more I read of the threads, I definitetly get the general idea that they think that they are the only ones that are true christians.

My personal belief is that the actual church is made up of true believers in Christ. Just because a person is Catholic does not make them a christian any more than being a Baptist or Methodist does. It is what you do with Jesus. If, in fact, Catholics believe that they are the only correct religion, where is the proof that I am wrong by being a Baptist?

 

[Annabel Lee]

When I refer to "The Church", it is not meant as a derogatory statement towards Protestanism.

My family is Irish Catholic and ,as far as I know,everyone calls it "The Church".

In most parts of Ireland, especially in the past, the Roman Catholic Church was The Church.You did not need to differentiate between Christian Churches. When you said, The Church, everyone knew what you meant.

In my case, it's just the way I was raised.
Peace,
Annabel

 

[jukesk9]

It's been called the Church since its inception because there was only one church and it was universal (hence the word Catholic, which means universal). The term "Roman Catholic Church" arose out of the Reformation as a derogatory term towards the Church. The Reformers figuered that if they could label the Church "Roman" it would conjure up bad images of pagansim, emperors, etc. from the Roman Empire and thus help their break with Rome and bring with them new followers. Ironically, many Catholics embraced the term Roman Catholic.

Do we believe we are the true church? Yes. We believe we are the church Christ founded and that we have His full revelation of faith. Do we believe that other denoms aren't Christian? No. Do we believe other denoms are going to hell because they aren't Catholic? No.

What does the Catholic Church teach about other Christian churches?

832 "The Church of Christ is really present in all legitimately organized local groups of the faithful, which, in so far as they are united to their pastors, are also quite appropriately called Churches in the New Testament.... In them the faithful are gathered together through the preaching of the Gospel of Christ, and the mystery of the Lord's Supper is celebrated.... In these communities, though they may often be small and poor, or existing in the diaspora, Christ is present, through whose power and influence the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is constituted."[312]

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."[322] Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."[323] With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."[324]

855. "The Church's mission stimulates efforts towards CHRISTIAN unity.[Cf. RMiss 50.] Indeed, 'divisions among Christians prevent the Church from realizing in practice the fullness of catholicity proper to her in those of her sons who, though joined to her by Baptism, are yet SEPARATED from full communion with her. Furthermore, the Church herself finds it more difficult to express in actual life her full catholicity in all its aspects.'[UR 4 # 8.]"

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by cheezit
I always hear the Catholic church being refered to as THE church. Does the Catholic church, as a whole, believe that they are the only true church? And if so, why? Am I, as a Baptist, going to Hell because I am not a Catholic?

Do you mind if I correct you here? The Church spelled with a capital C makes reference to the Holy Catholic Church and any other denomination is just another church.

Sorry cheezit, I am one of those who thinks that heaven is for Catholics only (which does not mean that all Catholics go to heaven).

Nobody would say that all Baptists go to hell, nor would I.

 

[cheezit]

"Do you mind if I correct you here? The Church spelled with a capital C makes reference to the Holy Catholic Church and any other denomination is just another church."

Sorry I didn't hit the "shift" key.

"Sorry cheezit, I am one of those who thinks that heaven is for Catholics only (which does not mean that all Catholics go to heaven)."

Got any specific Bible verses to back up this totally rediculous claim?

"Nobody would say that all Baptists go to hell, nor would I."

Too late. You just did in your previous statement.

I would suggest that you go re-read your Bible.

 

[Wolseley]

Hi Chili. You're new here, so I'll chip in and greet you personally as one of the moderators of the Catholic Discussion Forum.

I've been reading through your posts on several threads, and I have to say that I find some of your responses a bit unusual; several of your conclusions or interpretations are quite different, to say the least. That's okay; I am merely expressing a personal reaction.

The other thing I need to say is that the merest hint of derision towards Protestants or other non-Catholics will not be tolerated on this Forum. For one thing, this is a discussion forum, not a debate forum like Interfaith, and for another, we intend to keep this forum low-key and friendly, welcoming anyone who wishes to visit here. Statements such as this:

Sorry cheezit, I am one of those who thinks that heaven is for Catholics only (which does not mean that all Catholics go to heaven).

are not acceptable here. Please couch your language in a manner that is less open to misinterpretation and which is also less likely to offend or anger posters who may not be Catholic. Whether you meant this literally or not is not the point---the point is that a statement such as this is bound to cause problems, merely by the way it is worded, and that is something we wish to avoid.

Thank you, and welcome to the board and to the forum. We appreciate your participation.

Blessings,
---Wolseley, Catholic Discussion Moderator.

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by cheezit


Too late. You just did in your previous statement.

But that is not true. We must either be hot or cold but not lukewarm. This means that if we "enter the race" we must complete the race and if we are called to enter we may not have been chosen by God but were called out of carnal desire. This distinction is made in Jn.1:13 and is confirmed many times after that.

With regard to the capital C thing, I usually spell Catholic with a capital C and protestant with a small p because it is not the name of a denomination.

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by Wolseley

The other thing I need to say is that the merest hint of derision towards Protestants or other non-Catholics will not be tolerated on this Forum. For one thing, this is a discussion forum, not a debate forum like Interfaith, and for another, we intend to keep this forum low-key and friendly, welcoming anyone who wishes to visit here.
Thank you, and welcome to the board and to the forum. We appreciate your participation.

Blessings,
---Wolseley, Catholic Discussion Moderator.

Thanks Wolseley, I think I got your message.

 

[cheezit]

First you said:

"Sorry cheezit, I am one of those who thinks that heaven is for Catholics only.."

I called you on it and you said:

"But that is not true."

By saying that Catholics are the only ones in Heaven, you ARE saying that everyone else is going to hell. And I take a really BIG exception to being told I am going to hell when I know for a fact that I am not.

 

[VOW]

To Cheezit:

The Catholic Church teaches that ALL Christians are "saved." Those who do not belong to the Catholic Church are not in full fellowship with all the Sacraments, but that does not mean they don't have valid faith or don't live holy lives.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

I think that the Catholic Church believes that it is easier to get to Heaven with the help of the Sacraments of the Chrch. The farther one's denomination or religion is from the Church, the harder it is, but at no point does salvation become impossible.

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by cheezit
First you said:

I called you on it and you said:



By saying that Catholics are the only ones in Heaven, you ARE saying that everyone else is going to hell. And I take a really BIG exception to being told I am going to hell when I know for a fact that I am not.

But cheezit I explained my position and you ignored it. Here it is again for you to evaluate. I wrote

But that is not true. We must either be hot or cold but not lukewarm. This means that if we "enter the race" we must complete the race and if we are called to enter we may not have been chosen by God but were called out of carnal desire. This distinction is made in Jn.1:13 and is confirmed many times after that.

 

[Lion Heart]

JUKESK9,

Originally posted by jukesk9
The term "Roman Catholic Church" arose out of the Reformation as a derogatory term towards the Church.

Your statement is erroneous, concerning the Roman Catholic Church name arising out of the Reformation.

The Roman Catholic Church came into existence at the end of the 4th century, When Theodosius made christianity the national religion of Rome.

Previous to that Rome persecuted, imprisoned and killed
CHRISTIANS, as a matter of fact.

Many of what the church considers were Apostolic Church Fathers were martyred for their christian faith.

Anyone willing to convert to Roman Catholisism must make the follwing oath and then and only then, will they be baptized into the Church: (please correct me if I am wrong)

"I (name), having before my eyes the Holy Gospels, which I touch with my hand, and knowing that no one can be saved without that faith which the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Roman Church holds, believes and teaches: against which I grieve that I have greatly erred, inasmuch as I have held and believed doctrines opposed to her teachings; I now, by the help of God's grace, profess that I believe the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Roman Church, to be the only true Church established on the earth by Jesus Christ, to which I submit myself with my whole heart. I firmly believe all the articles which she proposes to my belief, and I reject and condem all that she rejects and condemns, and I am ready to observe all that she commands me."

This confesiional required under oath, with eyes open
speaks for itself.

If this is so, How is it that Catholics state that (the church) teaches or acknowledges that there are saved christians outside of the Roman Catholic Church??

If this is the ONLY true church established on the earth by Jesus, how can their be christians outside of it, and how can she acknowledge this to be so?

Jesus himself taught the following:

"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15-16

Faith in Jesus is what is in view in this passage of scripture, baptism without faith in Him produces damnation according to His own words.

Something to consider..

 

[KC Catholic]

ADMINISTRATOR HAT ON

I normally DON'T handle things this way...but I am doing it now.

Chilli, Lion Heart, Fragments of Dreams -> The "One Bread, One Body" Forum is NOT a debate forum. We do not debate Catholic beliefs, its not a place for NON-Catholics OR anti-Catholics to spout their rhetoric.

I will give you this warning now, next time you may find yourself banned from posting.

Anti-Catholic comments, behavior, posts, etc...WILL NOT BE TOLERATED here at "Christian Forums."

So , consider this your warning.

Peace,
KC

 

[Wolseley]

Lion Heart, if you wish to re-post in Interfaith Discussion, we can go from there.

I can tell you that your "oath of allegiance" for Catholic converts, as quoted above, is no less than 40 and no more than 460 years out of date.

 

[cheezit]

Originally posted by Chili


But cheezit I explained my position and you ignored it. Here it is again for you to evaluate. I wrote

But that is not true. We must either be hot or cold but not lukewarm. This means that if we "enter the race" we must complete the race and if we are called to enter we may not have been chosen by God but were called out of carnal desire. This distinction is made in Jn.1:13 and is confirmed many times after that.

I agree that we must be on fire for the Lord.
However, you did say:

"Sorry cheezit, I am one of those who thinks that heaven is for Catholics only (which does not mean that all Catholics go to heaven).

Now, please explain to me how I am supposed to take this absurd comment, please. It has absolutely nothing to do with being on fire for the Lord or hot, cold or anything else.

 

[Lion Heart]

Originally posted by Wolseley
Lion Heart, if you wish to re-post in Interfaith Discussion, we can go from there.

I can tell you that your "oath of allegiance" for Catholic converts, as quoted above, is no less than 40 and no more than 460 years out of date.

WOLSELEY,

As you well know I'm new to this site; and am trying to learn to navigate it by using it, at the top of this page on the thread line it clearly states; "(For Christians Only)> Discussion of Catholic Beliefs"

I assume the word discussion as written herein means what it says; please direct me to the index; that better describes each forum site so that I can understand what yours and KC's concern is.

KC,

I previously saw on another threads your concern or perceived threat entitled "Catholic bashing" you perceive as such, you've left me wondering there, as well as here;

Where and how have I bashed any Catholic?

Please be kind enough to point it out..

Humbly, Richard

 

[VOW]

To Lion Heart:

Your statement is erroneous, concerning the Roman Catholic Church name arising out of the Reformation.

For starters, this proclamation is pretty inflammatory.

Please be assured, Lion Heart, that the Catholics here are not saying that you cannot question what we believe. Ask away! We're not interested in converting anyone to Catholicism. All we want to do is to clear up the misconceptions and misinformation about the Catholic Church so all of us as the Body of Christ can share the Word with the world.

This particular forum is for those who wish to learn what we believe. It's not to judge what we believe. It's not to argue what we believe.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Wolseley]

WOLSELEY,

As you well know I'm new to this site; and am trying to learn to navigate it by using it, at the top of this page on the thread line it clearly states; "(For Christians Only)> Discussion of Catholic Beliefs"

I assume the word discussion as written herein means what it says; please direct me to the index; that better describes each forum site so that I can understand what yours and KC's concern is.

The main menu page has an overall list of the rules of the site, and at the top of each forum is an announcement list which goes into more detail of the rules of that specific forum. If there are questions you have which the rules do not seem to cover, feel free to contact a moderator.

 

[Chili]

Originally posted by cheezit


I agree that we must be on fire for the Lord.
However, you did say:

Now, please explain to me how I am supposed to take this absurd comment, please. It has absolutely nothing to do with being on fire for the Lord or hot, cold or anything else.

Sorry I will witdraw my statement and please accept my apologies.