Thanks too Wiffey.
It's a shame that Evangelicals try to "convert" Greek Christians to the "gospel"? ummm....the Greek Church's officla language is Koine Greek (Biblical Greek)....all the Greek Church Fathers spoke Biblical Greek as their mother tongue....I think they knew scripture and Biblical Greek better than any of us could today!!
In my experience there is real fear of Orthodoxy in Evangelical circles.....they fear I believe for one of the following reasons:
1. Fear of what is foreign
2. Fear that it is a false/evil religion
3. Fear that it is the true faith and the shock of what that would mean in terms of lifestlye changes, their concept of God and the loss of friends and community.
I believe that reason #3 is far more common than we realize. I have had several protestant friends who have stopped debating with me or investigating after a period of discussion, and two have stated that it is because of a fear that it is right rather than being wrong!!
As for the Catholic Church in Nazi Europe. Read "Breakfast with Hitler" or any collection of Hitler's own ramblings on various subjects. Secular historians (and I don't mean that English jackass who wrote Hitler's Pope....he is not a credible historian) all note his obsession with the Catholic faith and its evil influence on German culture. The motto "Jew first, Jew-lover next" was well known in Germany. "Jew-lover" code for Catholic. Hitler himself called the Catholic Church "the greatest Judaizing influence on German history".
I was watching a program on history channel of all things, and they had a clip of Manfred Rommel (Erwin Rommel's son) speaking of a conversation he witnessed his father having with Hitler while they were visiting him as a boy (he was about 11).
Hitler warned Rommel to leave the Catholic Church....to quote Manfred "Hitler said to my father 'My religion belongs to the strong; your religion is for the weak. It belongs to the past". Quite revealing and chilling.
It is interesting to note that of the plotters who planned the July 1944 bomb plot, most of those were Catholics, such as Rommel and Count von Straussenberg -(he himself carried the bomb into Hitler's map room at Wolf's Lair).
Also worthy of note, that all Jewish organizations will tell you that statistically, the majority of Jew saved in Europe were saved by Catholic institutions and people, in fact more than all the other organizations and individual helpers combined!
Rome had the highest percentage of saved Jews of any European city.
It was very difficult for Pius to speak out after 1942, as the Vatican and his Papal residences were filled to bursting with Jewish and other refugees. It was a situation that demanded extreme caution.
When the Church spoke out in Holland during the war, the Nazis in a fit of rage went after all baptized Christians of Jewish extraction who until then had been left alone in Catholic monasteries. (This was the occasion of Edith Stein's arrest). So it had only made things worse.
Thus, there was no reasoning with Nazis.
Also of note, Rabbi Zolli, Chief Rabbi of Rome, converted to Catholicism after the war due to his personal friendship with Pius XII. (He wrote an excellent book about it called "Before the Dawn" I have read it....get it!!). Pius had personally intervened to save his family.
There is much more to say on the subject. I am reading a book by a Jewish convert to the Church who has a whole section on the Church and the Shoah.
Ironically, though it was Hitler's #2 Enemy, the world and the devil have twisted the good that the Church did during the war into an abominable untruth.
Yes, individual Catholics could have done more. Yes, Catholic Culture before the war could have opened up more to the Jews.....yes, yes yes.
But to say that the Church was an ally of the Nazis or wanted the Jews to die is a terrible lie!
One of every ten people who died at Dachau (Germany's first concentration camp) was a Catholic priest, deacon or seminarian!!! Over 10% of the total deaths!
At Auschwitz, by the end of 1941, there were over 5,000 Catholic priests sent to that death camp. (Jews began being sent to the camp en masse in 1942).
For Kobe was one of those 5,000 unfortunate priests who were targeted for extermination by the Nazis.
Matt
It's a shame that Evangelicals try to "convert" Greek Christians to the "gospel"? ummm....the Greek Church's officla language is Koine Greek (Biblical Greek)....all the Greek Church Fathers spoke Biblical Greek as their mother tongue....I think they knew scripture and Biblical Greek better than any of us could today!!
In my experience there is real fear of Orthodoxy in Evangelical circles.....they fear I believe for one of the following reasons:
1. Fear of what is foreign
2. Fear that it is a false/evil religion
3. Fear that it is the true faith and the shock of what that would mean in terms of lifestlye changes, their concept of God and the loss of friends and community.
I believe that reason #3 is far more common than we realize. I have had several protestant friends who have stopped debating with me or investigating after a period of discussion, and two have stated that it is because of a fear that it is right rather than being wrong!!
As for the Catholic Church in Nazi Europe. Read "Breakfast with Hitler" or any collection of Hitler's own ramblings on various subjects. Secular historians (and I don't mean that English jackass who wrote Hitler's Pope....he is not a credible historian) all note his obsession with the Catholic faith and its evil influence on German culture. The motto "Jew first, Jew-lover next" was well known in Germany. "Jew-lover" code for Catholic. Hitler himself called the Catholic Church "the greatest Judaizing influence on German history".
I was watching a program on history channel of all things, and they had a clip of Manfred Rommel (Erwin Rommel's son) speaking of a conversation he witnessed his father having with Hitler while they were visiting him as a boy (he was about 11).
Hitler warned Rommel to leave the Catholic Church....to quote Manfred "Hitler said to my father 'My religion belongs to the strong; your religion is for the weak. It belongs to the past". Quite revealing and chilling.
It is interesting to note that of the plotters who planned the July 1944 bomb plot, most of those were Catholics, such as Rommel and Count von Straussenberg -(he himself carried the bomb into Hitler's map room at Wolf's Lair).
Also worthy of note, that all Jewish organizations will tell you that statistically, the majority of Jew saved in Europe were saved by Catholic institutions and people, in fact more than all the other organizations and individual helpers combined!
Rome had the highest percentage of saved Jews of any European city.
It was very difficult for Pius to speak out after 1942, as the Vatican and his Papal residences were filled to bursting with Jewish and other refugees. It was a situation that demanded extreme caution.
When the Church spoke out in Holland during the war, the Nazis in a fit of rage went after all baptized Christians of Jewish extraction who until then had been left alone in Catholic monasteries. (This was the occasion of Edith Stein's arrest). So it had only made things worse.
Thus, there was no reasoning with Nazis.
Also of note, Rabbi Zolli, Chief Rabbi of Rome, converted to Catholicism after the war due to his personal friendship with Pius XII. (He wrote an excellent book about it called "Before the Dawn" I have read it....get it!!). Pius had personally intervened to save his family.
There is much more to say on the subject. I am reading a book by a Jewish convert to the Church who has a whole section on the Church and the Shoah.
Ironically, though it was Hitler's #2 Enemy, the world and the devil have twisted the good that the Church did during the war into an abominable untruth.
Yes, individual Catholics could have done more. Yes, Catholic Culture before the war could have opened up more to the Jews.....yes, yes yes.
But to say that the Church was an ally of the Nazis or wanted the Jews to die is a terrible lie!
One of every ten people who died at Dachau (Germany's first concentration camp) was a Catholic priest, deacon or seminarian!!! Over 10% of the total deaths!
At Auschwitz, by the end of 1941, there were over 5,000 Catholic priests sent to that death camp. (Jews began being sent to the camp en masse in 1942).
For Kobe was one of those 5,000 unfortunate priests who were targeted for extermination by the Nazis.
Matt
Upvote
0
