Gold Dragon said:
To my Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters. I want you to understand that I am not criticizing the Catholic church for its actions in the holocaust but simply acknowledging the historical reality that both the Catholic church and Protestant churches in Germany received a lot of criticism for not being more outspoken (largely from within their own ranks) during Hitler's reign.
If you have read my other posts on CF, I try my best to foster ecumenical discussions between protestants and catholics with truthful statements.
I also do not see the OP as attacking the Church but acknowledging that in the Church's long and illustrious history, there were some darker moments. Asking what those have been perceived to be in the past is a valid question in this forum that doesn't imply anti-Catholicism. Those darker moments could include the darker sides of Protestantism like the KKK and the Salem witch trials.
Hi Gold Dragon,
I did not take your comments to be one of attack
I think you were expressing what you think and feel about what you know of the history of this time . ..
You are right, both Protestants and Catholics were criticized . .. My contention is that there is more to this than meets the eye . .
I cannot speak to the Protestant side of it, for I have not researched it much, but as for the Catholic side, the Church had to make a judgement call, a very conscious and hard one, as to how much to say and what affect it might have . . ..
It was in no way lax in its responsibility to stand up to the tyranny of Hitler . ..
We have the advantage of hindsight . . they did not. But even with hindsight, it appears to me that the Church's decisions were vindicated.
Some of the 'wrongs' of the Catholic Church are indeed imagined, myths . . the Church's "role" in the holocaust, or its "failure" to act, is generally one of those myths . ..
Please don't take my statements to be a personal attack against you . . .we all can increase our understanding of the facts and history, and until we have more information, we may honestly believe we do have the necessary facts and are being truthful to the best extent possible . . .
I used to hold the same opinion you have expressed, and I was truthful as much as I could be in holding that opinion . . . I just found my opinion to be fairly skewed as I didn't have all the evidence before me.
Here is some of that information:
[size=+2]I[/size]n recent years, the media have accused the Catholic Church of either helping the Nazis
or being silent during the Holocaust. As an example, the January 26, 1998 issue of Time magazine on page 20 claims that the Catholic Church apologized for
"collaborating with the Nazis during World War II." Even the new Holocaust Museum in New York unjustly criticized Pope Pius XII for being silent during World War II. The Church has recently spoken on this topic.
[size=+2]T[/size]he
Israeli consul, Pinchas E. Lapide, in his book,
Three Popes and the Jews (New York: Hawthorn Books, Inc., 1967)
critically examines Pope Pius XII. According to his research,
the Catholic Church under Pius XII
was instrumental in saving 860,000 Jews from Nazi death camps (p. 214). Could Pius have saved more lives by speaking out more forcefully? According to Lapide,
the concentration camp prisoners did not want Pius to speak out openly (p. 247). As one jurist from the Nuremberg Trials said on WNBC in New York (Feb. 28, 1964),
"Any words of Pius XII, directed against a madman like Hitler, would have brought on an even worse catastrophe... [and] accelerated the massacre of Jews and priests." (Ibid.) Yet Pius was not totally silent either. Lapide notes a book by the
Jewish historian, Jenoe Levai, entitled,
The Church Did Not Keep Silent (p. 256). He admits that everyone, including himself, could have done more. If we condemn Pius, then justice would demand condemning everyone else. He concludes by quoting from the Talmud that
"whosoever preserves one life, it is accounted to him by Scripture as if he had preserved a whole world." With this he claims that Pius XII deserves a memorial forest of 860,000 trees in the Judean hills (pp. 268-9). It should be noted that
six million Jews and three million Catholics were killed in the Holocaust.
We must remember that the Holocaust was also anti-Christian. After Hitler revealed his true intentions, the Catholic Church opposed him. Even the famous Albert Einstein testified to that. According to the December 23, 1940 issue of Time magazine on page 38,
Einstein said:
Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks...
Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.
In another, similar statement, Einstein referred explicitly to the Catholic Church (Lapide, p. 251). This is an extraordinary testimony by an
agnostic German scientist of Jewish heritage. Even though there were traitors in her ranks, the Church still opposed the Nazi movement.
There is quite a bit more at the site this came from:
http://users.binary.net/polycarp/piusxii.html
As far as the OP attacking the Church, of course this is a matter of perspective. I cannot say what the intent of the OP him/herself was, but the information posted in the OP is anti-Catholic in nature and source . It is myth and misrepresentation of the facts hich many in some protestant/nc groups actually beleive is true.
The OP assumed that his/her information was factual and true, and asked about
other "darker" moments . . . It is what is implied by that question that I am concerned about, ie that the "list" presented is accurate and true in what is stated and implied by it . .
Were there dark moments in Church history? Yes, but I have found them to be far fewer and less darker than those who promote such myths (as included in the OP) would have us believe . . .
Peace in Him!
