The Christian Conservative Right Is A Sham.

[Jay NotApplicable]

They will have you believe that it's the church's job, and not the government's, to help out the needy.

They will have you believe that when people are in need they can go to church for help.

I have a family, including a baby who is not mine who I saved from an abortion to take care of. I'm unable to work at a conventional job, and I've been trying for a year to get a job that I am able to do, but am unable to find work or an income at this time. And the churches that I've gone to for help have turned me down.

Even the admins at these forums told me they would help me. Then a few days later they got back to me, and said they are going to help me by deleting the link to my website because it has "donate" option. How's that for helping me out?

And the last church I went to, the pastor told me he would help me out. I was shocked at the amount he gave me when he handed me the cash. Do you know how much he gave me? Guess... He gave me two dollars.

My website is www.JLakoda.com. And I've deleted the donate option, so that the admins here will not delete this link again. (And I bought the website almost a year ago for much less than my overdue balance on my electric bill, so it's not like I could have paid the electricity had I not had a website.)

I am writing this as the electric company is outside of my condo turning the electricity off right now.

Good bye.

 

[Chainless]

I agree. In a perfect world it would be true. But in reality the church would rather help someone in Uganda. I am in financial ruin and on the verge of homelessness. I went to my church (which is huge and extremely affluent) and they flat out refused to help. But, the government said yes. I am with conservatives on most things but it's extremely naive to say the church will help people. They wouldn't help me out with a few hundred but will give millions to Albania or some place I've never heard of.

 

[dayhiker]

That is pretty sad ... very sad ...

Its this reason that I've stopped tithing to my church. My family lives into their 90s and that means about 30 years after I retire I'll need my savings to last. Now I know my church isn't going to pay my bills thru my retirement years, so I'm saving more than I used to so I can pay my own bill when I get there.

 

[contango]

I agree. In a perfect world it would be true. But in reality the church would rather help someone in Uganda. I am in financial ruin and on the verge of homelessness. I went to my church (which is huge and extremely affluent) and they flat out refused to help. But, the government said yes. I am with conservatives on most things but it's extremely naive to say the church will help people. They wouldn't help me out with a few hundred but will give millions to Albania or some place I've never heard of.

Local needs should be given a high priority.

The trouble with any distant needs is that they are, well, distant. If someone lives near us we can see them, but if they are distant we have no way of knowing whether they are claiming hardship while really doing rather well on the back of donations.

Personally I'd rather help a local family in need than give to a huge charity that promises to help children in Uruguay have a better education.

 

[Chainless]

I was just thinking about this. Conservatives don't believe in "handouts" so they want to do away with things like welfare and emergency funds etc. and have people rely on the church to help them. Problem is, the church is made up of conservatives who don't believe in "handouts". It's hypocritical. The people saying "the church should help, not government." are the same people who say "I won't help."

 

[contango]

I was just thinking about this. Conservatives don't believe in "handouts" so they want to do away with things like welfare and emergency funds etc. and have people rely on the church to help them. Problem is, the church is made up of conservatives who don't believe in "handouts". It's hypocritical. The people saying "the church should help, not government." are the same people who say "I won't help."

I'm sure you could find a broader brush than that to paint.

I suspect part of the problem is that when a substantial amount of money is taken by force, ostensibly to help those deemed "in need" by the government, it's inevitable to feel a certain reluctance to part with even more money to help someone we don't know and who could be a freeloader for all we know.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that the people who are most vocal about their need are the ones with the least actual need. The people in genuine need tend to be very quiet about it. This appears to hold true in many cases whether the need is financial or practical.

 

[Archivist]

My church participates in a local consortium that provides services to individuals in need including rent and utility assistance, a food bank, transportation, medical services. abise centers and youth programs. If someone stops at the church and asks for money, the church sends them there.

 

[Chainless]

I'm sure you could find a broader brush than that to paint.

I suspect part of the problem is that when a substantial amount of money is taken by force, ostensibly to help those deemed "in need" by the government, it's inevitable to feel a certain reluctance to part with even more money to help someone we don't know and who could be a freeloader for all we know.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that the people who are most vocal about their need are the ones with the least actual need. The people in genuine need tend to be very quiet about it. This appears to hold true in many cases whether the need is financial or practical.

I was just stating a fact. I wasn't opining. It's not my brush I'm painting with. The church is made up of conservatives in an overwhelming majority. It's a fact. Politically, those conservatives support reducing or completely removing any government aid and they support political candidates who subscribe to those views.

I completely agree with you as far as people who are genuinely in need being quiet about it. It was terribly difficult for me to do. To the point of tears. It was extremely humbling for me to ask for help. I was very reluctant. I've since shed the shame by realizing that there was simply no other option and recognizing that this was exactly why these programs were in place. A few short years ago I never would have dreamed I would be in this position.

 

[Psalm 91]

They will have you believe that it's the church's job, and not the government's, to help out the needy.

They will have you believe that when people are in need they can go to church for help.

I have a family, including a baby who is not mine who I saved from an abortion to take care of. I'm unable to work at a conventional job, and I've been trying for a year to get a job that I am able to do, but am unable to find work or an income at this time. And the churches that I've gone to for help have turned me down.

Even the admins at these forums told me they would help me. Then a few days later they got back to me, and said they are going to help me by deleting the link to my website because it has "donate" option. How's that for helping me out?

And the last church I went to, the pastor told me he would help me out. I was shocked at the amount he gave me when he handed me the cash. Do you know how much he gave me? Guess... He gave me two dollars.

My website is www.JLakoda.com. And I've deleted the donate option, so that the admins here will not delete this link again. (And I bought the website almost a year ago for much less than my overdue balance on my electric bill, so it's not like I could have paid the electricity had I not had a website.)

I am writing this as the electric company is outside of my condo turning the electricity off right now.

Good bye.

I'm so sorry you are having to go through all of this and that the church has disappointed you. There are many, many people in the same situation these days. We will be punished by God because we have come to rely on the government to take care of the poor and they do but as a result, the church has gotten lazy. I also think that the scammers out there have caused a lot of mistrust.

I hope God won't think I'm a hypocrite but I didn't notice you mention your prayers to Him. Maybe that goes without saying. I too, am going through difficulties though not financial, and I am not a patient person. But I do know that I will have learned something at the end of this difficulty. Have you asked Him why this is happening? It could be as simple as that we are living in the endtimes and things will be very difficult for all of us, maybe in different ways. Maybe it's something much bigger, although the endtimes is pretty big. I don't think you can rely on anyone associated with Christianity today. Everyone is going in different directions. I don't think being conservative has anything to do with the reason why the church is not any help. As someone said here she's not tithing because the gov't takes money from our checks and gives where they want without asking us for our opinions. I personally think, however, that Christians who are poor would be the last to get the bulk of the tax money. The churches don't have much because others have stopped tithing too and instead of asking God for wisdom, they are using the money they do get for other things rather than helping the poor. I know that a bag of food is helpful but people need a lot more. And some churches have offerings taken "as people are on their way out of church", which probably doesn't yield much.

Being without electricity is the thing I fear most. I'm so sorry for you and your family. There are gov't assistance agencies which help with utilities and if the bill is way over your head, they will help pay off the amount past due. If you can't find work, you can get welfare, except that you own your own home. Have you gone to any of the seminars by Dave Ramsey? I wish that I could help but am on a fixed income, but I'm wondering if Operation Blessing could help or K-Love radio. I'm sure there are some here who know a lot more about sources of help. Feed the Children is also a help for families. I will be praying for you and your family and I pray that this situation won't make you bitter. The Christian Church is lost these days and are not representing Jesus so I also hope that you won't become angry with Him. All of the things happening are prophesied in Scripture and unfortunately instead of pulling together, we're pulling apart. Please hold on because God is with us even when we don't feel His presence. He's going to help you.

 

[NorrinRadd]

That is pretty sad ... very sad ...

Its this reason that I've stopped tithing to my church. My family lives into their 90s and that means about 30 years after I retire I'll need my savings to last. Now I know my church isn't going to pay my bills thru my retirement years, so I'm saving more than I used to so I can pay my own bill when I get there.

I kind of identify with this. I'm currently on a fixed income. I've had to become much more stingy than I'd like about my alms-giving, because I realized that at the rate prices are increasing, my money will barely sustain me to the age at which my dad died, and probably won't come close to sustaining me to the age at which my mom died.

 

[NorrinRadd]

...
Being without electricity is the thing I fear most. ...

That's one of the reasons I dread storms. The grid around here is a bit flimsy, so my power goes off for several hours at least half a dozen times a year. It's very isolating and miserable. I live alone, and the heat or air-conditioning, TV, Internet, and all the phones but one require electricity.

 

[NorrinRadd]

On the "churches" thing...

There are usually at least *some* churches or ministries around willing and able to help. But I can also understand why there may not be as many as we'd like to believe. For one thing, churches and ministries suffer along with everyone else when the economy is slow and prices are high; if they haven't planned ahead and set aside money during good times, they have less with which to help during bad times. Besides that, I'm sure many churches, ministries, and even potentially helpful individuals are wary and hesitant because of being repeatedly burned by scammers or by people who for whatever reason habitually careen from one disaster to another.

 

[nicedream]

Local needs should be given a high priority.

The trouble with any distant needs is that they are, well, distant. If someone lives near us we can see them, but if they are distant we have no way of knowing whether they are claiming hardship while really doing rather well on the back of donations.

Personally I'd rather help a local family in need than give to a huge charity that promises to help children in Uruguay have a better education.

if churches refuse to help those they know, how can they really help those they don't know? i was turned down for financial "bridge" assistance when i was between jobs. it was a pastor i had known for years. i was practically shunned by the church. it's WRONG. it's not how Christ would act. really hurt me, after all the time i had donated to church as a volunteer.

 

[Psalm 91]

if churches refuse to help those they know, how can they really help those they don't know? i was turned down for financial "bridge" assistance when i was between jobs. it was a pastor i had known for years. i was practically shunned by the church. it's WRONG. it's not how Christ would act. really hurt me, after all the time i had donated to church as a volunteer.

Maybe they didn't have enough. Or perhaps since they'd known you as a frequent attendee, they made a judgement, unfairly, that things would get better for you based on your age, whether you have family or a spouse, etc. I'm sure when they help church members, they're wondering in the back of their minds if someone will walk in with holes in their shoes and clothes after they've given away the last dollar. The homeless people used to sleep outside my former church and were asked to leave. The church was in an affluent neighborhood. I thought that was wrong and I couldn't understand why they didn't give them coffee and donuts once in awhile on Sundays, but I guess they didn't want to encourage them.

But then at my new church they showed a video testimony by a single mother who would get food from the church. One night her son asked if there was gravy for the mashed potatoes and she had to say no. I don't remember if she prayed or if she asked God if He cared about gravy. But the next time she came to get her bag of food, on top was an envelope of gravy mix. It gave her hope and her life began to improve and she got a job.

Blackhawks are losing.

 

[Lollerskates]

I think if the Church was doing what God told us to do (not individuals, the collective) then the communities would be taken care of in famine and plenty. The people get their increase from God. 10% of that increase goes to the Church. The minister and family spend enough of that resource from the people to live on, and then they store and save the rest. That way, as some have said, if you have congregation struggling for whatever reason, the Church would have had a "silo" of resources stored away for everyone else - whether it be money, wood, corn, cotton, or incense. And, since the tithe is 10% of God's increase, it isn't as if the people ever lost anything. They still retain 90% of their increase.

If we forget about what is qualified for a tithe and just say money, there should be in every church a store for times like this. In the mean time, to the best of people's abilities everyone in the community should be helping freely (doctors/nurses volunteer clinic hours, warriors/soldiers/fighters man security for the church, chefs/cooks cater, etc.)

*shrug*

I just think the church can be so much better than a blinding light in the middle of a trash heap, so to speak. The congregations are suffering; Church was the original God-given social security/"entitlement program."

 

[Psalm 91]

I think if the Church was doing what God told us to do (not individuals, the collective) then the communities would be taken care of in famine and plenty. The people get their increase from God. 10% of that increase goes to the Church. The minister and family spend enough of that resource from the people to live on, and then they store and save the rest. That way, as some have said, if you have congregation struggling for whatever reason, the Church would have had a "silo" of resources stored away for everyone else - whether it be money, wood, corn, cotton, or incense. And, since the tithe is 10% of God's increase, it isn't as if the people ever lost anything. They still retain 90% of their increase.

If we forget about what is qualified for a tithe and just say money, there should be in every church a store for times like this. In the mean time, to the best of people's abilities everyone in the community should be helping freely (doctors/nurses volunteer clinic hours, warriors/soldiers/fighters man security for the church, chefs/cooks cater, etc.)

*shrug*

I just think the church can be so much better than a blinding light in the middle of a trash heap, so to speak. The congregations are suffering; Church was the original God-given social security/"entitlement program."

That is right. And I know that I'd be a much more cheerful giver knowing that my tithe was really helping those in need. I think it's okay to have "fests" in the summer but only after those in need have been helped. I also care about missions but not if church members at home are going through a hard time. I guess I attended a church that was really supporting a lot of missionaries, which is great but I think they need to help their members and have fewer missionaries. Just my opinion.

 

[Jay NotApplicable]

Well, we got the power turned back on. I found out about a law in my state that makes it illegal for them to turn the power off if you have a baby under 1 year old, so I brought the birth certificate to them and they agreed to turn it back on. Praise God!

 

[Lollerskates]

Well, we got the power turned back on. I found out about a law in my state that makes it illegal for them to turn the power off if you have a baby under 1 year old, so I brought the birth certificate to them and they agreed to turn it back on. Praise God!

(FYI, there should be one for elderly too... worked for my grandmother.)

That is great news man.

 

[Psalm 91]

Well, we got the power turned back on. I found out about a law in my state that makes it illegal for them to turn the power off if you have a baby under 1 year old, so I brought the birth certificate to them and they agreed to turn it back on. Praise God!

I didn't see this last night. That's wonderful! Praise God!

 

[Skybringr]

If the government is supporting people with benefits such as welfare and food stamps, aid from churchgoers is already given through their taxes.

That means the argument in this thread is pointless- it's already mandatory for citizens to pay for these government programs, so what is church aid?

The right wing wants to move these things from gov't to church, because the more one leans toward gov't, the more power you to it. It becomes a mighty entity, which is contrary to the old American virtue of limited government.


I'll tell you what the real sham is- the left wing's continued act of making the virtues of Christianity worthless and void, acting as if secular notions are the key to social success in which Christianity always comes second or nothing at all.
The left wing is responsible for the sad state of Christendom today.