The Christian Conservative Right Is A Sham.

[RDKirk]

~Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or teach them to fish, and he'll eat for life~

Such is the way of the Word.

Chapter and verse, please, since you've accredited that to the Word.

 

[Skybringr]

Chapter and verse, please, since you've accredited that to the Word.

You need to calm down there buddy. I don't know what's got you in some sort of rage where you just grab at some random two lines of a post and straw man the hell out of it- you are being ridiculous.

 

[RDKirk]

You need to calm down there buddy. I don't know what's got you in some sort of rage where you just grab at some random two lines of a post and straw man the hell out of it- you are being ridiculous.

Well, for your edification, that quotation is by Lao Tzu, the founder of Taoism.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Funny I'm writing an essay right now on 3 specific issues that the prophets of the Old testament didn't like too much and how these issues are applicable to today.: idolatry, religious ritualism, and social injustice.

Jeremiah 5:4 is a verse I used for my example of social injustice:

“I thought, “These are only the poor; they are foolish, for they do not know the way of the LORD, the requirements of their God.”

Easier to blame the the downtrodden than help them I guess.

 

[Albion]

Well, for your edification, that quotation is by Lao Tzu, the founder of Taoism.

Who'd a thought that asking for chapter and verse would be a ridiculous strawman, and act of rage, and a strictly random demand.

 

[Skybringr]

Who'd a thought that asking for chapter and verse would be a ridiculous strawman, and act of rage, and a strictly random demand.

Because I never said it was from a chapter or verse, I said it is something the Bible teaches in general.

Maybe the problem is that your lot don't let the Bible breathe broad truths, instead focusing on verses and clashing notions.

It's very anti-intellectual, actually. I don't need to hear that constant nonsense.

 

[RDKirk]

Because I never said it was from a chapter or verse, I said it is something the Bible teaches in general.

Maybe the problem is that your lot don't let the Bible breathe broad truths, instead focusing on verses and clashing notions.

I all the bible has to say about caring for the poor, either OT or NT, the bible does not teach that, either specifically or broadly. The constant biblical presumption--as well as the Lord's declaration--is that "the poor you will have with you always."

If you're going to assert that the Bible teaches something, you should be prepared to prove it from the Bible.

 

[Skybringr]

If you're going to assert that the Bible teaches something, you should be prepared to prove it from the Bible.

Not by your mighty demand, I don't.

If you don't believe the Bible teaches what I said, then that's your problem. And a big one at that, because you apparently don't gather much being that you're being stupidly skeptical about something so simple.

Go get on somebody else' nerves, thank you.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

God helps those who help themselves eh Skybringr?

 

[Albion]

Because I never said it was from a chapter or verse, I said it is something the Bible teaches in general.

If you think anyone will swallow this line, maybe they'll also go for you saying that you never wrote the post at all.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Its a pretty simple christian concept: looking at someone with contempt instead of love isn't christian. You should be asking yourself, "How am I looking at this person?"

Matthew 22:39 people. basic christian thought and theology towards the lost and everyone in general all revolve around that verse pretty much.

If you lost everything, would you want someone to help you?

 

[Jay NotApplicable]

If you don't believe the Bible teaches what I said, then that's your problem.

The bible teaches that it's a sin to eat chicken flavored burritos on Wednesday. Oh, and by the way, if you don't believe the Bible teaches what I said, then that's your problem.

 

[only a sojourner]

Conservative Christians typically attempt to solve social problems through charitable giving especially to Christian organizations or to personally provide help to individuals in need. They believe assistance through government run programs is wrong or at least that these programs should be very limited. Helping people through charitable giving and personally assisting people is excellent. However, although people should be helped on an individual basis social problems of scale are systemic and government programs and intervention are needed. Christians should be on the forefront of fighting for such programs in addition to charitable giving and direct personal assistance. A few of months ago in a different forum I posted a request for prayer for my supervisor's brother's family. Her brother was a private contractor and neither he or his family had health insurance and he consequently received no medical treatment. He suddenly died of a heart attack at a school athletic event with his children present. An autopsy revealed that that he had considerable blockage in his cardiac arteries which he was unaware of because he received no preventive medical care. In comparison to other advanced economies America ranks low on most medical indexes such as longevity, rates of disability, etc. This is in part due to lifestyle, eating habits, high rates of obesity but most of it is attributable to a lack of medical coverage. The Affordable Health Care Act was very poorly crafted, convoluted and inadequate. Western European models are far superior and more comprehensive.

Another topic I invite discussion on is tithing. It is a commendable practice but lacks support in the New Testament where it is hardly mentioned. Those who advocate it often reference Old Testament sources such as the Book of Malachi. The early Christians did not tithe. In the New Testament Christians are however exhorted to give generously, even sacrificially, especially if they are wealthy. I am concerned especially with poor families with children feeling compelled to tithe. Far more then tithing we are commanded to give our lives and every aspect of our lives, fully, without reservation, to the Lord Jesus Christ.

I have another thread entitled "A Christian Economy" in the General Political Discussion sub-forum. Unfortunately I am new to this thread and have not read through every post. As a conservative (on theological and social issues) charismatic Christian in the US my economic views are at odds with the broad majority of Charismatic Christians in this country.

Poverty in the US is very real. I have been working in child welfare with the families of the poor for 20 years and see first hand the circumstances and issues. People often find themselves in insurmountable circumstances, sometimes as a result of poor decisions previously made, personal limitations, personal vices or inadequate life chances. In most instances the people I work with have no relationship with Jesus. I can pray but I am blocked because of my job from bringing them the light of Christ.

 

[charles1014]

They will have you believe that it's the church's job, and not the government's, to help out the needy.

They will have you believe that when people are in need they can go to church for help.

I have a family, including a baby who is not mine who I saved from an abortion to take care of. I'm unable to work at a conventional job, and I've been trying for a year to get a job that I am able to do, but am unable to find work or an income at this time. And the churches that I've gone to for help have turned me down.

Even the admins at these forums told me they would help me. Then a few days later they got back to me, and said they are going to help me by deleting the link to my website because it has "donate" option. How's that for helping me out?

And the last church I went to, the pastor told me he would help me out. I was shocked at the amount he gave me when he handed me the cash. Do you know how much he gave me? Guess... He gave me two dollars.

My website is...and I've deleted the donate option, so that the admins here will not delete this link again. (And I bought the website almost a year ago for much less than my overdue balance on my electric bill, so it's not like I could have paid the electricity had I not had a website.)

I am writing this as the electric company is outside of my condo turning the electricity off right now.

Good bye.

I am so sorry to hear of your plight, as I have been struggling myself also. It is sad that churches are no longer churches but community centers with a "Christian" twist. The problem with the church is that it ceased from being people centered but instead building programs. More emphasis is on brick and mortar as opposed to the lives that make it up.

The church is nothing more than a government approved 501c 3 organization that operates with the full blessing of the government. The pastor is not a pastor but the CEO of the organization and his first and foremost priority is to bring in revenue so as to keep up his buildings beautiful appearance and to pay his over bloated salary.

Helping you brings nothing to his organization, unless you can show him how helping you will bring more people into his organization along with more money.

This is why so many have turned from God and have turned to men like Obama. This is why our Lord is bringing judgment to this world very soon and this is why so many who call themselves Christians, will burn in hell with their lord and master, Satan.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:21-23 KJV)

 

[Skybringr]

And the last church I went to, the pastor told me he would help me out. I was shocked at the amount he gave me when he handed me the cash. Do you know how much he gave me? Guess... He gave me two dollars.

That's just plain insulting.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There's no point in personally helping the poor when the poor are getting government aid.

Sort of like when the Church uses our offerings to feed the hungry, there's no point in personally feeding anyone who is hungry--they're getting fed on our dime anyway.

Right?

Or is there no point in personally helping the poor only when the government also chips in?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[RDKirk]

Sort of like when the Church uses our offerings to feed the hungry, there's no point in personally feeding anyone who is hungry--they're getting fed on our dime anyway.

Right?

Or is there no point in personally helping the poor only when the government also chips in?

-CryptoLutheran

Yes.

We could discuss Acts 2 and Acts 4 from the point of view of the Jewish-Christian congregation of Jerusalem: The Mosaic Law had lots of provisions to help the poor, yet the congregation at Jerusalem made it their personal, congregational business to make sure their own poor had all their needs met.

We could discuss 2 Corinthians 8, in the Roman world where even the Roman government provided a public bread dole for their poor, yet Paul urged them to make sure their own poor were taken care of.

The fact that government programs were available did not obviate the obligation of the congregations to make sure all the needs of the congregation were met.

I attended a Calvary Chapel years ago that did the same thing. Yes, there was Social Security and Medicaid and food stamps and other programs. But that did not obviate the congregation's intent on making sure everyone's needs were met, and supplementing the government when and were necessary, especially in ways the government did not.

 

[Skybringr]

Sort of like when the Church uses our offerings to feed the hungry, there's no point in personally feeding anyone who is hungry--they're getting fed on our dime anyway.

Right?

Or is there no point in personally helping the poor only when the government also chips in?

-CryptoLutheran

They are getting aid from the government, which obtains it through people- in this case, the churchgoers.

Nobody is starving in America. Less privileged and not having an abundance of food, but nonetheless not starving. The conviction of people going hungry is a bit loaded; Americans don't know what going hungry truly is.

 

[ViaCrucis]

They are getting aid from the government, which obtains it through people- in this case, the churchgoers.

Nobody is starving in America. Less privileged and not having an abundance of food, but nonetheless not starving. The conviction of people going hungry is a bit loaded; Americans don't know what going hungry truly is.

Oh sure, the impoverished in America have it, generally, far better than the impoverished in the third world. Incredibly so. And it's because we have a social safety net.

But just because a family below the poverty line receives government assistance doesn't change the fact that you and I have a social obligation to our neighbor from Christ's own command.

It no more makes sense to argue that we have no personal responsibility toward our neighbor because there are government social programs, then to say we have no personal responsibility toward our neighbor because there are ecclesiastical and other private social programs.

When I give money to my church, I understand that this money is going to, among other things, our congregation's social ministry both for the needy in our congregation and those beyond our walls. But just because my church uses donated money to helping the poor and hungry in the community doesn't mean that, if I see someone hungry, I don't buy them a sandwich and instead sit on my hands, twiddle my thumbs, saying "I already gave to my church".

Yes, tax money gets used for assistance programs, taxes are a part of life in a civilized society, and improving our society through programs of social uplift seems to be the rather bare minimum that we ought to expect from the functions of civilization.

Saying, "Why should I bother to act right toward my neighbor when there are others helping them?" is a patently un-Christian sentiment, it's also a rather pathetic argument.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Skybringr]

Oh sure, the impoverished in America have it, generally, far better than the impoverished in the third world. Incredibly so. And it's because we have a social safety net.

But just because a family below the poverty line receives government assistance doesn't change the fact that you and I have a social obligation to our neighbor from Christ's own command.

It no more makes sense to argue that we have no personal responsibility toward our neighbor because there are government social programs, then to say we have no personal responsibility toward our neighbor because there are ecclesiastical and other private social programs.

When I give money to my church, I understand that this money is going to, among other things, our congregation's social ministry both for the needy in our congregation and those beyond our walls. But just because my church uses donated money to helping the poor and hungry in the community doesn't mean that, if I see someone hungry, I don't buy them a sandwich and instead sit on my hands, twiddle my thumbs, saying "I already gave to my church".

Yes, tax money gets used for assistance programs, taxes are a part of life in a civilized society, and improving our society through programs of social uplift seems to be the rather bare minimum that we ought to expect from the functions of civilization.

Saying, "Why should I bother to act right toward my neighbor when there are others helping them?" is a patently un-Christian sentiment, it's also a rather pathetic argument.

-CryptoLutheran

There are people dying of starvation in the 3rd world.

Until you take care of that, I say close the books. A homeless person in America is privileged in relevance to others in this world.

It's easy to neglect them, however, because they are not your neighbors- you have little recognizance of them.