"The Christ Myth"

[Memory's Flame]

Before shooting down this thread; please read this whole message... it's not what you think!

I found this website today talking about how Christianity derrives from Paganism

the link is HERE 

Please don't get this wrong...I am Christian(No doubt about it) I just thought it was some interesting arguements that open minded people might enjoy...

The site made me a little mad; in some of it's sayings... but then again it wouldn't be a religious site if someone was trying to disprove someone else...

Just keep and open heart and an open mind. Please do not attack me, because I am in no way saying I believe this site; it's just simply for discussion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jedi]

The good 'ol guilt by association sort of arguments. It is the midnset of "if Christianity is similar to something else, then Christianity must have come from that something else," which is hardly a proof at all. Commonly cited "evidences" are Appolonius of Tyana, Sabbatai Sevi, Rabbi Judah, and Kabir. People who try to draw such a specific connection seem to be doing nothing more than grasping at straws.

 

[CoHehir]

Interesting. . .

I'd have to look to J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis on this matter. They had some very interesting ideas concerning pre- and post-Christian mythologies that have striking similarities to our own faith.

C.S. Lewis:
"Now what Dyson and Tolkien showed me was this: that if I met the idea of sacrifice in a Pagan story I didn't mind it at all: again if I met the idea of a god sacrificing himself to himself I liked it very much and was mysteriously moved by it: again, that the idea of the dying and reviving god (Balder, Adonis, Bacchus) similarly moved me provided I met it anywhere except the Gospels."

I just thought that was interesting. It's among the 'hints' of Christianity that God has left throughout time, pointing to the truth.

 

[Doctrine1st]

Yes, it's just by coincidence that they share absolutely the same imagery.

 

[CoHehir]

Not coincidence at all. Sacrificing one's self is highly valued in every culture. Sacrifice stories are abundant everywhere you go. This was placed into culture in the world by God, so that all would understand the value of Jesus' sacrifice. In a way, they are prepatory myths. The story of Jesus' sacrifice for us is only different in that it is a True Myth.

 

[Doctrine1st]

I said that with tongue firmly planted in thy cheek.

 

[CoHehir]

Well <sigh>. . .ya know. . .<sigh>. . .it's kinda hard to tell when it's only written. . .<sigh>

 

[Jedi]

Yes, it's just by coincidence that they share absolutely the same imagery.

I still think it's a fallacious line to be drawn, ya know? It is like saying, "Since this here apple tree and orange tree have some strikingly similar characteristics (they both have branches & bark, they produce a round tastey fruit, they both have green leaves, they grow in the same orchid, etc), then the apple tree must've come from the orange tree." It's an interesting idea, but nothing I would consider a convincing proof.

 

[CoHehir]

Christianity didn't come from one of these other mythologies. In a better sense, those mythologies came from the Truth that God had revealed. They contain bits of Truth, but the Truth was only made flesh in Jesus Christ. That is the True Myth.

 

[Memory's Flame]

There are many similarities in religions...the main one is to be able to have a belief to grasp.

Christianity is a wonderful and loving religion with many amazing aspects. I just find things like that interesting... not that I believe them, but that people are so against each other and can not stand to tolerate other people having other beliefs.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Today at 01:03 AM JacqueB said this in Post

I found this website today talking about how Christianity derrives from Paganism

I think there's probably a lot of truth to that argument.&nbsp; Christianity does seem to have a&nbsp;Hellenic influence.&nbsp; Here's another interesting Jesus Myth site:

http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/puzzle1.htm

http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/preamble.htm

 

[Just]

I still think it's a fallacious line to be drawn, ya know? It is like saying, "Since this here apple tree and orange tree have some strikingly similar characteristics (they both have branches & bark, they produce a round tastey fruit, they both have green leaves, they grow in the same orchid, etc), then the apple tree must've come from the orange tree." It's an interesting idea, but nothing I would consider a convincing proof.

Considering evolution has pointed to that being the case. I don't see how you think this is so absurd.
To me (because I trust the evolutionary theory) you have just proven that the myths did 'evolve' from each other.
Strange arguement..

 

[Nathan Poe]

Today at 08:51 AM CoHehir said this in Post #5

Not coincidence at all. Sacrificing one's self is highly valued in every culture. Sacrifice stories are abundant everywhere you go. This was placed into culture in the world by God, so that all would understand the value of Jesus' sacrifice.

Pagan Myths come first, then the Christ story. Chicken or the egg time...

Answer? "Goddidit."

In a way, they are prepatory myths. The story of Jesus' sacrifice for us is only different in that it is a True Myth.

A "true myth." I'll have to write that one down.

 

[Jedi]

Considering evolution has pointed to that being the case. I don't see how you think this is so absurd.
To me (because I trust the evolutionary theory) you have just proven that the myths did 'evolve' from each other.
Strange arguement..

So you believe apples come from orange trees. You're quite the funny fellow. I suppose people really will believe anything nowadays.

And I've debated against macro-evolution for quite some time. It's absurd to believe in it, and demands the believer to commit intellectual suicide. To trust it is utter folley for any thinking individual. As C.S. Lewis writes, "It appeals to every part of me except my reason... I believe it no longer" (Christian Reflections, "The Funeral of a Great Myth," 23).

 

[troodon]

Today at 10:34 PM Jedi said this in Post #14



So you believe apples come from orange trees. You're quite the funny fellow. I suppose people really will believe anything nowadays.

He probably ment that they share a common ancestor. They most certainly do share one (and a recent one&nbsp;as well given the similarities).

And I've debated against macro-evolution for quite some time. It's absurd to believe in it, and demands the believer to commit intellectual suicide. To trust it is utter folley for any thinking individual. As C.S. Lewis writes, "It appeals to every part of me except my reason... I believe it no longer" (Christian Reflections, "The Funeral of a Great Myth," 23).

That's cute. Attack his (and mine and the vast, vast majority of the scientific community's)&nbsp;intellectual character; way to take the high road

 

[CoHehir]

No, he did not mean they come from similar ancestors. . .he meant that because they are similar, one must have been derived from the other.

The argument presented by C.S. Lewis (True Myth) is that the Christ story fulfills what many of us will think is just a plain cool story about sacrificing for the greater good. This is seen in pagan myths, both pre- and post-Christ, and other religions. The fact that they contain truth does not mean they embody truth, as Christianity does. Therefore, the story of Christ's sacrifice is that is like every other myth except for the fact that it is true. True Myth.

 

[Just]

CoHehir, That is what I meant. How the hell do you know what I think?


Considering some people actually believe in supernatural stuff (eg. Spirits, gods, angels, fairies, heaven, trolls) .. The Evolutionary Theory isn't very much... That and it is scientific.

Im not saying that science is always right - as sometimes it isn't, but it is alot more credible - that it has actually been thought out...

 

[Jedi]

He probably ment[sic] that they share a common ancestor. They most certainly do share one (and a recent one as well given the similarities).

Really? And what ancestor might that be? Can you prove to me through empirical observations how apple and orange trees came from some unknown common ancestor? Can you prove to me that they changed over time so dramatically? I think that such a feat would be quite a good show.

That's cute. Attack his (and mine and the vast, vast majority of the scientific community's) intellectual character; way to take the high road

It’s so funny how the lesser equipped evolutionists always take refuge in the idea that they are the consensus of people, and so since they are the consensus, surely they can’t be wrong, since the majority of people believe as they do. Need I remind you that the majority of people also used to believe that man would never fly? Consensus does not determine truth, and so there’s no reason to even bring it up. Furthermore, your accusations are baseless. Evolution was cited as a basis of belief, and when I point out that I think that basis is baseless, I’m all of a sudden “attacking his intellectual character?” Please. If that’s what you call it when someone disagrees with something you think, then I’m afraid you’re going to be “attacked” quite often throughout your life.

No, he did not mean they come from similar ancestors. . .he meant that because they are similar, one must have been derived from the other.

That was exactly my point, and it seems the evolutionists have completely missed it. People seem to be saying that since Christianity and these other mystery religions are similar, Christianity must have derived from them. Like I said, it is like saying that because of the similarities between an apple and orange tree, one must’ve come from the other, which is nonsensical. The whole guilt by association line of reasoning is utter folly.

Considering some people actually believe in supernatural stuff (eg. Spirits, gods, angels, fairies, heaven, trolls) .. The Evolutionary Theory isn't very much... That and it is scientific.

Not macroevolution. It’s dogma is what it is.

Im[sic] not saying that science is always right - as sometimes it isn't, but it is alot[sic] more credible - that it has actually been thought out...

To say that science has been thought out (and requires no faith at that) while Theology has not is nonsensical. I dare say people have spent more time trying to figure out theological/philosophical questions than scientific ones, and continues today as just as avid a study as science. A priori is just as essential to coming to obtain knowledge as a posteriori is.

 

[troodon]

Today at 04:08 AM Just said this in Post #17

CoHehir, That is what I meant. How the hell do you know what I think?

Wow dude. I was trying to help you out but never mind. I'm outta here.

 

[LAMan4Him]

From a biblical perspective, Satan is the father of lies. He himself can disguise himself as an Angel of light and he can decieve the masses. I think Satan will also try to imitate the Trinity with his own unholy trinity (Anti-christ, Satan, false prophet)....

what am I getting at and what does it have to do with this?

Well, Satan had access to the throne of God, knew who God was and how he thinks, His love for mankind,etc. Satan can counterfiet it and show some "simularities" to the truth, without being the truth. I believe many religons and myths are all ways of having just enough "truth" to mislead,deceive or tempt.

my thoughts..