The cheating heart

[Bombila]

I agree with Tropical Wild's post, and repeat that the husband may be unaware of health issues that he might at least be able to bring up to start a conversation, if he himself was well educated about what problems can arise for women - even if she herself is not.

A woman approaching her thirties is normally approaching a sexual peak. If she does not want sex with her husband at all, ever, something is wrong, either with the relationship or with her health physical, emotional or mental.

Rather than talking about strengthening the relationship through her having sex regardless of her desires, the goal should be to find out why she doesn't want to do that.

Most couples will occasionally have sex in spite of one partner being a little tired or not really interested, and for the very purpose of comfort. In the case discussed, the wife obviously gets no comfort from this kind of behaviour.

And of course, one unhappy possibility is that she has fallen out of love with her husband for some reason, and for many women, this would make sex unthinkable.

 

[Savage78]

I had the opportunity to speak to the wife, and she has told me what the problem is...I have asked her if there was a physical reason, she said no. I asked her if she was allright emotionally, she said she coulndt be happier and that she thought that it was depression but a visit to a shrink said that wasnt the case. She said she is simply happy not to have sex, she doesnt want to have sex with her husband or anybody...but she cant divorce him or he will give her nothing (another smart man with a pre nup). So now I have to give him the only advise that I can, leave her, take the kids (part of the pre nup) and find himself a woman that wants him.

 

[Savage78]

With all due respect, that still doesn't rule out a medical problem... A couple of years ago, I felt the same way... Loved my husband, but I was perfectly happy not having sex. Didn't want sex with anybody else, don't want to engage in self gratification, just didn't feel having it. Again, depression or emotional issues wasn't the problem, but a visit to the doctor revealed hormones that were disasteriously out-of-whack. After changing my birth control method, waiting the appropriate "detox" time, and some hormone therapy, I was fine. You'd never know now that we had a problem, and I have a hard time going a few days without sex.

Anyway, these were problems that I didn't have control over, and certainly couldn't be diagnosed by a therapist, or even most GP's. But it was still a medical problem. If she is on hormonal birth control, that could be a major factor, or depending on when she had kids last, that could be a factor too.

Before you tell him to divorce her, you should tell her to go to a doctor, and you should tell him to go to the doctor with him. The fact that she'd share this info with you, but not her husband, is a sign to me that their communication is terrible, and perhaps if he took an active interest in helping her, that would help their relationship.

Unless, of course, neither one is interested in saving the marriage, to which the lack of sex is a symptom of the disassociation and his lack of interest in solving it is just an him trying to justify his desire to leave.

I have said as much, she insists that there is nothing wrong hormonally or emotionally (took bloods to check the balance etc).

On top of that in Fiji we dont have all that fancy hormone replacement and things like that, forget about artificial insemination and such it just doesnt exist.

Bottom line is he isnt happy and she is...so should he go through life being miserable, I think not and my advice still stands.

Though, out of curiosity, what kind of pre-nup did they have that dictates who takes the kids, or that she gets nothing if they divorce? She's an idiot for signing something like that...

I dont know about them but I have one that is similar. It basically says that I am the sole bread winner and if I am to pay support for the children they are going to be living with me unless they can find any case of mental illness.

If she takes custody I am under no obligation to support her or my son (although I will support my son by getting a house big enough for him and shopping for his food and paying his bills),

 

[Savage78]

..

If there are children thier needs trump his desire for sex.

I will start a thread on this I hope you respond.

 

[Savage78]

Also to Tropical Wilds why is the woman an idiot?

She signed of her own freewill, is she only an idiot because she did something you would not do?

My wife signed a similar pre nup...I can assure you she is no idiot.

 

[Savage78]

Wow... It must be a regional thing, or a difference in customs, because in the states a lawyer wouldn't tell anybody to sign a prenup like that, and most women wouldn't either. I know I never would have signed that. But then again, in the states, the primary guardian (the person the kids live with) doesn't pay child support, only the non-custodial parent.

It isnt a regional thing, I just believe in protecting the things that I have worked to achieve...I can love a woman but I am not a poor man, if a woman was to prove to me that she loves me for me and not for what i own then she signs a pre nup.

No pre nup, no marriage.....I was engaged a few times before and the women refused to sign the pre nup, so I cut them loose.

My wife didnt even hesitate, didnt question it all she said was she wasnt going anywhere so the paper didnt matter.

I do not believe that anyone is entitled to any body elses wealth.

If you choose to leave then you have chosen to not depend on this person...therefore you shouldnt want anything from them.

 

[Savage78]

Again, I don't want to derail your thread. If you want to put this elsewhere, I'll answer it, but I don't want to derail the thread.

I would humbly request that you start the new thread...as it would make for a very interesting discussion.

 

[cutie76]

1) No, the man is not wrong. 1Cor 7:4-6 says only obstain from sex if it's MUTUAL. This was not a command, but highly recommended. We are human after all and God knows this. I agree with another person who said if she does not want sex with her husband for that extented time there are deeper issues that must be addressed.

2) It's likely, since the Word defines adultry as the act or the thought. That's why Paul said what he did.

3) Both would have their own role in the marriage dissolving.

4) It's very important to give ones body to their spouse.

 

[Mling]

Honestly, I do think it is selfish for a spouse to withhold sex simply because they don't feel like it. If there is a real reason--say, they have an enormously busy scheduel and are just too tired, or they are having self image issues, or have been fighting with their spouse and can't handle being intimate with them right now, or they were mugged on the way home and can't handle being touched right now--then that should be discussed and dealt with (or, in the case of the fight, a simple, "not now, I'll feel better tomorrow" should suffice).

But just, "it doesn't matter to me, so I'm not going to go to any effort to keep you satisfied" is just selfish. I can understand being bothered by the idea of having full intercourse when you really don't want to---especially for a woman it smacks of the idea that your body is just there to be used. For a man it would be...difficult, from an anatomical perspective. But there are other things they can do that could be enjoyable, even to somebody with no libido, just because making somebody you love happy should be enjoyable, in and of itself.

Regardless of religion, a close relationship (friends, lovers, married, whatever) works best when both parties find ways to meet each other's needs, to whatever degree is appropriate for that relationship.

You can look at it as Paul's statement that people who are married should submit to one another and not deny each other, or you can think of it as Nash's statement that all benefit best when each individual in a group does what is best both for themselves and for the group. If you always insist on having your way, the group suffers, and then you suffer because of it, so that really isn't best for you. In this case, if she values the group--that is, her marriage--it would really be in her best interest to find a way to meet his needs.

 

[bliz]

I do not believe that anyone is entitled to any body elses wealth.

So much for two becoming one...

 

[Eudaimonist]

So much for two becoming one...

Do two really become one?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[gengwall]

I think the underlying principal regarding refusal is if requests are reasonable. If the couple has a big relational issue going on, it could be argued that no request for sex during that time is reasonable until they settle the greater relational issues. Requests for sex when someone is too tired, physically unable, overly stressed, or even truly has a headache, can also be viewed as unreasonable (or at least uncaring regarding your partner's needs). But, simply not feeling like it does not make a request for it unreasonable.

 

[Bombila]

The situation as described seems just not real. What 'happy', healthy wife simply says no, I'd rather not? That is what we are being told.

 

[quatona]

I do not believe that anyone is entitled to any body elses wealth.

Then, your question implies that people are entitled to somebody else´s body.

 

[Savage78]

The situation as described seems just not real. What 'happy', healthy wife simply says no, I'd rather not? That is what we are being told.

Actually thats what I am being told by both parties.

 

[Savage78]

So much for two becoming one...

The two are one as long as they stay together...but if one spouse decides to leave they both become single entities again and therefore should fend for themselves.

 

[Savage78]

Then, your question implies that people are entitled to somebody else´s body.

I believe that a certain amount of giving of oneself is a reasonable request in marriage.

If I am tired and sore from training (martial arts), and my wife requests sex I will do my best to satisfy that request because I want her to be happy...and she does the same for me.

 

[.Sabre.]

1)He's not wrong. She is denying him intimacy.
2)It depends on what kind of man he is.If he is desire-led then he probably will.However, if he is virtue-led then he will not cheat on her.
3)It takes two to make and two to break.
4)The giving of the body in marriage is important--it is an expression of love and the ultimate trust.It's unreasonable for someone to withhold sex just because they can, and a person who does this has a complex and just wants power.

 

[Onceseeking]

[
1. He is not wrong - she is wrong for not addressing the issue as directly and honestly with her husband as possible. She is wrong for not addressing this behavior as a threat to her marriage.

2. He may not cheat on her, but over time he will treat her as the less desirable partner that she has become. He will shift from concern and confusion to anger and resentment and it will play out over their daily life. Maybe he will cheat, but even if he does not - she will suffer.

3. Marriage is a two-party contract - both parties are respnonsible.

4. Sharing intimacy in a marriage is extremely important. To withhold intimacy from a partner without a legitimate (such as medical) reason is cruel. To withhold it and be unwilling to acknowledge the behavior as causing pain to your partner, to be unwilling to seek remedy is continual tortue.