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the changing speed of light. dad, this thread is for you

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dad

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Incorrect. With evolutionary algorithms, you start with two things:
1. A set of ways in which a program can vary.

The way that is chosen is copycatting the created trait of evolution. It is therefore no wonder that some intelligent results might be found! It simply takes a little shadow of creation, and works with that, that means it is based on intelligent design! You can't share in the credit, for that little copycat effort. God keeps all the glory, evolution is sidelined as a little after the fact freak show.
2. A goal.
Well, I can come up with a goal, to direct the programs toward as well. That bit is our intelligence working with the created traits. Either way, the whole think screams out, creation.
Then, you let the program run, and, for many problems, solving them in this manner turns out to be significantly better than people attempting to design solutions.
Naturally. The copying of a creation trait exceeds what modern man can figure out, because it is based on intelligently designed principles.

There is nothing telling the computer what the solution is: it finds it on its own through the usage of the evolutionary algorithm.
Yes, we tell it what to look for, we set the goals, and the methods we give it to use are the created traits of evolving. God wins. That is a KO in the first moments of round one!


What in the world do you think that this shows?
That discussed the way that the program could come to a dead end, but still came out to intelligent answers, because it simply moved on, with the created trait principles it was programmed with.
In the real world, if the world came to a dead end at the flood, the outcomes would also go on. His program can't fail.


Yes, that's where you posted it. But, as evolutionary algorithms show, "well built" in no way implies an intelligent designer.
Of course they do, you just missed the obvious fact that evolution was an intelligent created trait. You simply preferred to not retain God in your thoughts, so assumed that evolution was some lucky, godless,self existing fluke of a thing. If one realizes that it is actually the mark of creation, and the way creation was equipped, one cannot omit the Designer. To do so is a baseless, unsupportable exercise in vanity.
 
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Chalnoth

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The way that is chosen is copycatting the created trait of evolution.
I don't have nearly as much a problem with those who claim that God created evolution. But don't backpedal and now claim that evolution didn't happen. You do realize, I hope, that organisms have been evolving on Earth for something like 3.5 billion years? That evolution explains all of the diversity of life on Earth? That in evolution, the only set goal is continued reproduction, and thus there are no "end products" of evolution? That humans are not on the top of some evolutionary ladder, but are, instead, just one of the myriad of evolution's many products?

That discussed the way that the program could come to a dead end, but still came out to intelligent answers, because it simply moved on, with the created trait principles it was programmed with.
In the real world, if the world came to a dead end at the flood, the outcomes would also go on. His program can't fail.
Huh? Species go extinct all the time. How is that not "failing"?
 
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Danyc

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That depends on who we ask. If we ask a spiritually lobotomized and long indoctrinated believer in only the physical world, or if we asked the average man. Apparently, there are a great many that do believe in what is called God.
As for assigning Him a number for some baby math useless exercise, why, you may have a problem there. Maybe just ask an ape to hold up some fingers, and see what you can come up with.

Do I care who believes in God or not?

And it would only make sense that you would equate him to a number when speaking of an equation. I guess you didn't understand.


For this world to work, God is not needed.

Fact.

That is why he is not in any equations relating to the physical world.
 
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Danyc

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Really, now? And what qualifies you to say that? Are you familiar with all things that comprise men and beasts, including the spiritual?

May I ask, are you?


We are not just an animal, so you can save your little baseless philosophy for some that might be inclined to believe that.

We are just an animal. And it's not a philosophy, it's a fact of life.

In before "It's all in your head."

I looked up the Lutheran beliefs, and creeds, by the way. Since that is your claimed faith. They believe in a resurrection from the dead of the body.

"He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies" Are you positing that all animals, especially apes will be raised also bodily from the dead at the return of Christ!?? If not, that is a difference to end all differences!

Now, I noticed this bit as well, and thought of Genesis, and the creation of man and animals separately.
"[SIZE=+1]All Lutheran doctrine (teaching) is to be taken from Holy Scripture. Our Lutheran Confessions are very explicit on this point. ". . . the Word of God shall establish articles of faith and no one else,"
[/SIZE]http://linetap.com/trinity/trinity2.htm#Belief

Are you getting this??

I simply use the Lutheran icon because that is the church I attend. I am becoming more of an atheist every day thanks to this website.

There is so much evidence against Young Earth Creationism that it's not even funny now, you know. In seeing that all of Christianity has believed in Young Earth Creationism for the past 2000 years...well, I'm losing faith in my religion. How could people believe such a thing for so long? Granted, we have new technology nowadays, and we are able to know the age of the universe like they weren't able to before.

But this just makes it seem more like just another religion.

You're not helping too much either; I feel myself moving further away from Christianity almost every time I read a post of yours.
 
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FishFace

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Not quite sure what you think that is supposed to mean, if anything, and doubt you do either.

I'm sure you only see a big hazy blob, but that's all you want to see, so that's not very surprising.

I think I pointed out some time ago, that your maths simply cannot cover things that involved the spiritual.

You demonstrated quite aptly that you didn't have a clue about maths, and never backed up that particular claim.

Such as the concept of the possibility that light used to move at something other than a fixed rate for all the universe.

So light is represented by a function of some variable(s). i.e. c = f(x,y,z...) where x,y,z and ... are the variables involved.

See, you don't have a clue about maths - but that's still not an excuse for not having any. No maths - no points. Really.

You have no authority to speak of always!

Boo hoo! It always worked dad, don't get a bee in your bonnet! And like I said, we took them away and it still worked.

If so, then you have no choice but to admit that one of the lines is solely based on the time it took to see the ring light up. In other words, the assumed same light, nature, and speed. If you want to do fishbowl math on that imaginary line, you will need some evidence, other than a wish, and a prayer, and a hunch, and a belief, and an assumption.

No, that line is given a length in terms of an unkown variable, the speed of light.

Good grief, did you never do algebra? We say the length is "8*c" where c is the unknown speed of light, in metres per month.
Does this make any sense to you at all? Perhaps you ought to tell us just how much maths we need to teach you.
 
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dad

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I don't have nearly as much a problem with those who claim that God created evolution. But don't backpedal and now claim that evolution didn't happen.
Starting at Eden, I would say the evidence suggests it did happen.

You do realize, I hope, that organisms have been evolving on Earth for something like 3.5 billion years?
No, I realize that they started 6000 years ago from the created kinds.

That evolution explains all of the diversity of life on Earth?
It might help, but creation explains it as well, with evolving from that point. It is a lie that the evolving alone was responsible. A lie that cannot be supported.
That in evolution, the only set goal is continued reproduction, and thus there are no "end products" of evolution?
But there was a beginning product, the kinds.

That humans are not on the top of some evolutionary ladder, but are, instead, just one of the myriad of evolution's many products?
Not sure where you think you get off preaching fables on a science thread? There is no evolution ladder. There was adapting and evolving of created kinds. We are the top created kind, evolution has nothing to do with it. No science says it does.


Huh? Species go extinct all the time. How is that not "failing"?
Not sure how you again misunderstood the point. I will try one last time. At the time of the flood, all life not on the ark was killed. That seems to constitute a dead end to me. At least, if we are talking in terms of some evolution computer program, and how it might come to a dead end, as the link said. The point is, that such an abrupt change is likely not in the program, so whatever other fantasy points it might compute the evolving from, are of limited value, to say the least.
 
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dad

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Do I care who believes in God or not?
My guess is that a Lutheran would.

And it would only make sense that you would equate him to a number when speaking of an equation. I guess you didn't understand.
Well, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If 2 plus 2 is four, which number is God supposed to be??

For this world to work, God is not needed.

Fact.

That is why he is not in any equations relating to the physical world.
Well, of course He is. He is anywhere we like to put Him in our numbers. For example, there is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and these 3 are 1. I understand that is a bit advanced for baby math folks to grasp. But they are numbers involving this physical world, where the Son came down to.
 
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dad

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May I ask, are you?
I am familiar enough with apes, and men to know there are differences. I mentioned a few. Ask any ape to confirm or deny, if you can't take my word for it.
We are just an animal. And it's not a philosophy, it's a fact of life.
No, we are in no way an animal, except in a physical way of thinking, in some men's minds. Angels are not animals either, by the way.
I simply use the Lutheran icon because that is the church I attend. I am becoming more of an atheist every day thanks to this website.
Yes, thank goodness for places where some word can get through, so people can react to it one way or the other.
There is so much evidence against Young Earth Creationism that it's not even funny now, you know.
No, maybe against flood geology, but so what?

In seeing that all of Christianity has believed in Young Earth Creationism for the past 2000 years...well, I'm losing faith in my religion.
OK, I think we simply wait for the 'it's official' thread now.
How could people believe such a thing for so long? Granted, we have new technology nowadays, and we are able to know the age of the universe like they weren't able to before.
Easy, it is true. The past was different, so science missed the boat.

But this just makes it seem more like just another religion.

You're not helping too much either; I feel myself moving further away from Christianity almost every time I read a post of yours.
He would rather that we were hot or cold. You need to P or get off the pot. Move one way or the other. Live life, enjoy, get real.
 
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dad

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I'm sure you only see a big hazy blob, but that's all you want to see, so that's not very surprising.
I never made up the fact that we could not see the SN clearly for a few years after the fact. That was in a link, that you never addressed. Instead, you talk trash, as if the lack of clarity was my idea. Grow some integrity.


You demonstrated quite aptly that you didn't have a clue about maths, and never backed up that particular claim.
False, I demoed that maths that involve spiritual things do not compute in fishbowl figuring.

So light is represented by a function of some variable(s). i.e. c = f(x,y,z...) where x,y,z and ... are the variables involved.
No, light is not represented (in the future, or past created state universe, that includes the spiritual) by a single letter, unless the light was all the same speed. Therefore, a star that has light going from it at the speed of X, is not the same as speed for the light as star Y. Therefore, X does not equal Y, but could if He willed it to. That is why His will say, W determines each speed, not some arbitrary letter, representing some uniform speed.
Boo hoo! It always worked dad, don't get a bee in your bonnet! And like I said, we took them away and it still worked.
How that responds to your ability to address 'always' I have no idea.
No, that line is given a length in terms of an unkown variable, the speed of light.
OK, but it is that unknown that is used to form a distance by trigonometry. Therefore, we need to realize that distance is also unknown, rather than the 68,000 ly claimed.

Good grief, did you never do algebra? We say the length is "8*c" where c is the unknown speed of light, in metres per month.
Does this make any sense to you at all? Perhaps you ought to tell us just how much maths we need to teach you.
You can say that if you wish, but you might want to address the issue instead.
In this picture, the it is line D that you are missing.
trig.gif



The time light took to get along line D is assumed to represent present known speed of light. I need more than an assumption. You do not seem to have it.
 
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Chalnoth

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No, I realize that they started 6000 years ago from the created kinds.
Heh. The agricultural revolution was some 10,000 years ago.

But, regardless, evolution doesn't make any distinction between whether there was one or many initial beginnings of life. None whatsoever. It is the evidence that we have collected that says that there is one universal common ancestor.

Not sure how you again misunderstood the point. I will try one last time. At the time of the flood, all life not on the ark was killed. That seems to constitute a dead end to me. At least, if we are talking in terms of some evolution computer program, and how it might come to a dead end, as the link said. The point is, that such an abrupt change is likely not in the program, so whatever other fantasy points it might compute the evolving from, are of limited value, to say the least.
Well, it seems to me that you have no point at all. Your statements don't seem to have any bearing whatsoever on the proven usefulness of genetic algorithms in solving problems. The fact that these algorithms work, and often surprisingly well, shows that evolution deniers are just full of it. There is no need whatsoever for any deity to have stepped in and created "kinds". Evolution can generate all that tremendous variation on its own.
 
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dad

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Heh. The agricultural revolution was some 10,000 years ago.
Prove it.

But, regardless, evolution doesn't make any distinction between whether there was one or many initial beginnings of life. None whatsoever. It is the evidence that we have collected that says that there is one universal common ancestor.
Well, no, it does not in any way. You take it to mean that, in not knowing where evolving started or stops.
Well, it seems to me that you have no point at all. Your statements don't seem to have any bearing whatsoever on the proven usefulness of genetic algorithms in solving problems. The fact that these algorithms work, and often surprisingly well, shows that evolution deniers are just full of it. There is no need whatsoever for any deity to have stepped in and created "kinds". Evolution can generate all that tremendous variation on its own.
Where creation was equipped with the ability to evolve, that makes it something from intelligence. You prefer to look at it from a standpoint of belief that it is a flukathon. Then you act surprised that a computer program finds intelligence there, from using it as the starting point.
Creation deniers omitted God from their knowledge, and try to worship the creation, in this case, a created trait of evolution, more than the creator. That is fine, go ahead and get down, just remember, you cannot disguise your worship as science any more.
 
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FishFace

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No, light is not represented (in the future, or past created state universe, that includes the spiritual) by a single letter, unless the light was all the same speed.

Wrong. Suppose I drop a ball from 10 metres in the air. Then I can call its velocity v but its velocity is not the same all the time. Indeed, v = -9.8*t where t is the time in seconds since dropping it. This is true as long as t is between 0 and 1.43 seconds.
You see, just because we represent something with a single letter doesn't mean it's always the same.

Learn some maths before pontificating about it.

OK, but it is that unknown that is used to form a distance by trigonometry. Therefore, we need to realize that distance is also unknown, rather than the 68,000 ly claimed.

No, wrong wrong wrong wrong. It means we get a distance in terms of the speed of light.Do you understand what that means?

The time light took to get along line D is assumed to represent present known speed of light. I need more than an assumption. You do not seem to have it.

D = 8*c.

Where c is in metres per month. If we take the speed of light every sane person knows, then D = 8*7.88377367 × 10^14 = 6.30701894 × 10^15 metres. You can put anything you like in there for c, but you'd better follow it up if you want to actually make a claim.
 
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Danyc

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I am familiar enough with apes, and men to know there are differences. I mentioned a few. Ask any ape to confirm or deny, if you can't take my word for it.

As am I. The only real differences between us and apes are a few proportions, body hair, and intelligence. We are extremely alike genetically.

And you did not mention a few differences between apes and humans. You simply made note of what humans do these days and what apes do. Don't be thick, you knew what he was asking. Physical differences.

No, we are in no way an animal, except in a physical way of thinking, in some men's minds.

We are in every way an animal. And a physical way of thinking is the only way of thinking in science. If we're talking science, we're talking physical.

Angels are not animals either, by the way.

Really, I didn't know. I mean, they aren't even physical beings, but...

I don't see your point.






No, maybe against flood geology, but so what?
Yes, against both.


OK, I think we simply wait for the 'it's official' thread now.

Why should anybody other than myself care what my religious beliefs are? Why would I make a thread about it?

Easy, it is true. The past was different, so science missed the boat.

Unfortunately, you have yet to offer evidence outside the Bible for a different past. Until then, saying it was different is, quite frankly, a waste of time. Nobody will believe you unless you help yourself out.


He would rather that we were hot or cold. You need to P or get off the pot. Move one way or the other. Live life, enjoy, get real.

So, god would rather me be an atheist than be on the fence? He would rather me be an atheist, with no hope for salvation, than have me be at a point where I might fall back into Christianity?

I thought you were a Christian, Dad. You obviously don't know what God would think, if he exists. You might want to do a little more praying and less nonsense-shouting.
 
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dad

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Your site shows you have no proof whatsoever, thanks. As I suspected. Looking for any basis for the claims, all I found there was the claim itself. Worthless.
"..wild oat and 260,000 wild barley grains at the Gilgal archaeological site near Jericho that date back 11,000 years "

If they were brave enough to have shown the whys and wherefores of the claim, we could have looked at it. Keep your strawman, bogus story links and either support your claims, or remain exposed as not being able to at all!

Why? All that is required for evolution is the ability to replicate in an environment with limited resources. Why does that require intelligence?
Because first you need an environment, and second, you need one where evolving is a feature of that creation. Next, you need intelligent beings capable of making the computer, and program.
 
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dad

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Wrong. Suppose I drop a ball from 10 metres in the air. Then I can call its velocity v but its velocity is not the same all the time. Indeed, v = -9.8*t where t is the time in seconds since dropping it. This is true as long as t is between 0 and 1.43 seconds.
You see, just because we represent something with a single letter doesn't mean it's always the same.
Well, yes, in effect, of course it does. Let's say we drop a ball from a table and measure it's speed. Next, we take a ball, and toss it to the edges of the universe, many billions of ly away, and it gets there as fast as the ball hits the floor on earth. We cannot stay in the fishbowl ranges like your example, when dealing with the spiritual universe, of course. Therefore, T actually represents PO limits. Simply more or less averaging PO limited speeds may represent differences, but not the kind that matter at all in the big picture, when talking, as we were, about the forever state of the universe.

Learn some maths before pontificating about it.
I think we are learning about your maths here. They are fine, long as we keep them in the box.
No, wrong wrong wrong wrong. It means we get a distance in terms of the speed of light.Do you understand what that means?
Do you understand that we first need a speed of light to get anything, including a distance from it? If we do not know what that speed is, the distance that used it as a measuring line is worthless. Unless we first establish a homogeneous universe, which, so far, no one has been able to do here. Granted, I seem to remember that such things are your forte, so you might make some greater effort than what they have so far, in that point.
See, I used to assume a same state universe all over, and still lean that way. But, the more I look at the failures of science, the more I say we need to really see what we do know. If the speeds and nature of light at the time of the SN was different, then we cannot assume that one size fits all, for light speed. If, even, you cannot demonstrate that the present universe is all the same, I suppose we need to ask also what is really going on there now.
So far, there are a few unanswered questions on the thread. Some of the things people have no provided answers for yet here are what we know about the core to ring light speed.
- Do we see the core light up first, and then watch light travel out to the rings?
-If so, what cross checks can we have on how fast that is? (besides how long it took the ring to light up).
-What proof is there that the ring to core light travels at the same speed as SN to earth light?
But what is C, that is the issue.How would we know if the light there was under the same laws and universe state as we are here, now? After all, it happened a long time ago.

Where c is in metres per month. If we take the speed of light every sane person knows,
Ah, but if you know what the speed of light was at the time of the event there, we would not be talking. We know how fast light travels from limited observations. What you need to do here is extend our knowledge to the far stars. And, of course through great time.
Seems to me, we couldn't even see this thing clearly for years after the fact, as one link already provided pointed out. It is starting to look like you simply seek to explain it after the fact, as if certain things happened in that hazy period, and in the thousands of years before that.
To do so, you need to have your story straight.
 
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dad

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As am I. The only real differences between us and apes are a few proportions, body hair, and intelligence. We are extremely alike genetically.
No, you are looking just at the body. I might ask, then, what are the differences between you, and a dead man? You might look the same, to a great extent. Animals were not given the dominion over earth, and the gift of free will, far as I can tell.
And you did not mention a few differences between apes and humans. You simply made note of what humans do these days and what apes do. Don't be thick, you knew what he was asking. Physical differences.
Physical differences are not that important to the spiritual minded man. Any more than the physical body is, because it will die. God made physical bodies to get around this world, so why would I question any similar components in creatures physically?? It is not just intelligence, it is spiritual.

We are in every way an animal. And a physical way of thinking is the only way of thinking in science. If we're talking science, we're talking physical.
You can say that again! And, in talking science, you are so limited, that a meaningful conversation cannot be had about the true nature of man, or the universe. Thanks for that.
Really, I didn't know. I mean, they aren't even physical beings, but...

I don't see your point.
We were made a little lower than the angels, and they are not animals. Why would we be?? I will admit that the natural minded sinful man really can be beastly.
Yes, against both.
Both what? You cannot fight the different universe creation.

Why should anybody other than myself care what my religious beliefs are? Why would I make a thread about it?
Well, it seems that it is in fashion here to brag about losing one's faith.

Unfortunately, you have yet to offer evidence outside the Bible for a different past. Until then, saying it was different is, quite frankly, a waste of time. Nobody will believe you unless you help yourself out.
Unfortunately, you have yet to offer evidence for a same state past. Until then, saying it was the same is, quite frankly, a waste of time. If only the bible really holds the clues to the future and past, is it any wonder God gave us a book?
You may believe what you like, but you will not have science to hide behind, for the state of the past needed for all anti bible claims.

So, god would rather me be an atheist than be on the fence?
Re 3:15 - I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. [By the way, I am not one that really believes there really are atheists, unless they are literally insane]


He would rather me be an atheist, with no hope for salvation, than have me be at a point where I might fall back into Christianity?
If you believe in Jesus you already have salvation. I don't know that He cares less if you fall back into Christianity, whatever that is. He probably cares that we grow spiritually, and my guess is that that requires getting real.

I thought you were a Christian, Dad. You obviously don't know what God would think, if he exists. You might want to do a little more praying and less nonsense-shouting.
I am not one that really is into playing games. I think we ought to get serious with God, and find out He is real. Sailing along in a state of unbelief in Him, and His word probably is not the best thing for us. Jonah had a wake up call. Paul did, and all sorts of people in the bible did. Those sorts of things are what helped them grow. Playing church didn't seem to get Paul that far along, in fact, he was heading the wrong direction.
 
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FishFace

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Well, yes, in effect, of course it does. Let's say we drop a ball from a table and measure it's speed. Next, we take a ball, and toss it to the edges of the universe, many billions of ly away, and it gets there as fast as the ball hits the floor on earth. We cannot stay in the fishbowl ranges like your example, when dealing with the spiritual universe, of course.

Yes, in the function I gave as an example works in my example. It doesn't work if we apply your spiritual nonsense to it any more than it would if we did the more mundane thing of dropping it off a table on the moon.
Having got that out of the way, the point is that one letter represents different values, as long as the variables it depends on vary.

I think we are learning about your maths here. They are fine, long as we keep them in the box.

Maths works, full stop. If maths didn't work, then we would be able to find a contradiction in it. This has actually happened once or twice in maths, it produced a kind of mathematical revolution.
In this case, though, we're dealing with such an abstract case that you can't get out of it. If we represent the speed of light as a function depending on some variables then it doesn't matter whether it varies or not - we can accomodate both situations.

Do you understand that we first need a speed of light to get anything, including a distance from it?

So you don't understand. I'll give you an example.

Now, suppose, instead of looking at stars, we're looking at cars. We have car A, and we know that its top speed is 100km/h. Now, we want to know how far away it is, so measure the time it takes to travel over some angle that we can calculate, as we calculated the angle of the rings in the sky.
So, in our example, we can just make up any numbers we like, so let's suppose that it travels over an angle of 1 degree in 3 seconds. Then the distance of that line we're arguing over is 83 metres. If we see 83 metres as being 1 degree then we know that the car was about 2.4 km away.

Now, all of this was done with a fixed speed of car. Now suppose that we turn around and observe a different car, whose speed we don't know. Again it crosses 1 degree in 3 seconds. So, we call its speed v and we say that the distance of the line in question is 3 seconds * v where we must remember to express v in m/s.
You just told us that we need to know the speed to get anywhere. Not so. The distance we're arguing about is 3*v. So the distance to this car is 1.5*v/0.017455, or:

85.9 * v

By basic trig. In the SN case, we have different numbers, but the maths works the same. You end up with the distance from here to the supernova being some number multiplied by the speed of light as it traveled from the core to the ring.

Is this all clear so far?

So far, there are a few unanswered questions on the thread. Some of the things people have no provided answers for yet here are what we know about the core to ring light speed.
- Do we see the core light up first, and then watch light travel out to the rings?

We see the core light up, then rings light up. We can work out the orientation of the rings in relation to the core, and we know that they are associated with the core. We can understand that the core will produce bursts of light using physics, but not the ring. Put all of this together, what do you get.

-What proof is there that the ring to core light travels at the same speed as SN to earth light?

I can think of two things. Firstly, the same proof that the light from the sun travels the same speed to earth as it does to elsewhere in the solar system. Or that light travels at the same speed from a torch to your eyes as it does to someone elses.
Secondly, the fact that it is the same core, and the same process, that is producing the light. If you light a match, it would be like saying that you think that the light going out sidewards travels at a different speed than the light going towards your eyes. That's stupid.

If you want to claim that those speeds were different, then you'd better have some evidence.
 
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NailsII

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Because first you need an environment, and second, you need one where evolving is a feature of that creation. Next, you need intelligent beings capable of making the computer, and program.
Now who's caught up in the wrong 'state'?

Because all you can see around is created (computer, monitor, car, television etc. ) you assume that everything complex must also have been created by an intelligent being.

You are fooling no-one except yourself.
 
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No, you are here demonstrating that you have none. What, you are hiding it somewhere out in the desert?
Your myths originated in the desert. Evidence can be found in museams, try taking a look sometime.

I didn't ask you for an opinion on something you know nothing about. Long as you admit your un definitive 'sciences' are just that.
Do I need to show you the difference between opinion and logical conclusion as well?
You think I tried to assert that. I could allow for it, if the evidence was present, but don't blame the idea on me.
Humans have body hair, vestigal body hair. Unborn humans grow a full coat of hair in the womb which is shed.
As humans had clothes in early biblical time, they did not require a full coat of mammalian fur. Also, may I point out that civilisation as we know it began after the last ice age, which is why you cannot find evidence of an ice age that doesn't pre-date the bible.
Our body hair is the remnants of what covers an ape, it is one of a number of small peices of evidence that suggests we evolved from apes.
No they were not. They were still hunted.
And your evidence is........
No need to debunk cloudy guesswork.
Unfortunatley the world doesn't work like that.
You need evidence to counter a theory.
Show me a dropstone in an area, and how you think you know it was not underwater, specifically.
First provide evidence that the whole world has been flooded - as that will be your argument
You don't know what to look for, so you are not qualified to ask about it.
So show me what rock formations occur under a massive flood that lasts 140 days - and show me where I can find them in the same strata on every continent.
No need to prove creation, since science isn't up to the task, all we can say for sure, is that there is no reason to doubt it.
i notice how you don't even try.......
I can't ignore what isn't around, save in your head.
But you ignore so much, and accept what isn't there as fact.

OK, so you want to retreat to some other defense, you think will serve you better, let's see it.
No need for me to be defensive.
So, you say things with venom are a clade. That's nice. Apparently some in that blog site you linked are less than cheer leaders for the claims.

A few details here and there on this:
First, the animal in the picture isn't a lace monitor (V. varius), but is actually a Sand Monitor / Goana (possibly V. panoptes or gouldi or flaviurus; the taxonomy of this group is utterly insane). Lacies are much prettier, IMHO (google images and see what I mean).
Secondly, they're interesting results, but I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the phylogeny, since if you actually read the footnotes, they only test 5 lizard species and 4 of those were from the same genus, Varanus. The only non-varanid was a lone Iguanian (the super-family, part of family agamidae). As such, it's both too early to write off most of those other branches as not having venom, and too soon to start claiming clades without knowing the extent to which convergence of these protiens has occured over the 3000 odd lizard species (in 20-some-odd families).
Another thing that leapt to mind for me when reading was "so what?", since they don't address the relevance to the ecology/behavior of the species. It's clearly not for prey capture; the lone iguanian eats insects and plants (and just crunches them and gulps them down), and varanids are among the last things needing help dispatching prey (all species analyzed mostly eat small mammals, and they can dispatch those easily; I've personally cleaned rabbit intestines off the *ceiling* of a room-sized cage).
Furthermore, the Komodo strongly indicates against the potency of these chemicals, since, if it had something even approximating useful venom, why didn't it simply enhance that (as Gilas did) to subdue prey rather than evolving a totally distinct, bacteria-based mechanism? The fact that these two took totally separate routes to the same effective end from the same starting points indicates to me that the situation is substantially more complex that it first appears.
Another question I have concerns his previous work as applied to this: if venom protiens are recruited from protiens elsewhere, shouldn't we expect a high degree of convergence, if this recruitment occurs often (which I'd argue that the diversity of snake venoms that have evolved since the Miocene indicates it does)?
Personally, it's neat that he's found these protiens in lizard species, but I think a lot more work needs to be done before forming clades and assessing the role of these protiens in squamate evolution."
(same link)
I read this, and I would be suprised if no-one had tried to pick holes in it.
It is just one line of reasoning, and doesn't prove anything.
But when other evidence is considered, a picture emerges - and it is one of common descent.
At best all your post does is accuse the guy of jumping the gun a little, of treating one piece of evidence as the whole picture.
Try a link that doesn't just tell a story as if it were true. For example, if a picture claims that everything with venom almost had a single ancestor, back it up as to why.
What is more interesting is how related species share genes for venom - whether they poduce venom or not. These vestigal traits are evidence of evolution, and not evidence for creation.

Well, if some skinks adapted after the ark, to depend less on legs, so bloomin what??? That does not make them a fruit fly, cockroach, flatworm, or canary.
If the ark event occured 50 million years ago, I might agree.
And do I really need to point out that a skink evolving into an insect would pretty much debunk evolution?
Well, if people in the churches feel some remorse, that is a far sight better than the beastly sort that have no shame. I mean, maybe you think the little old ladies in church ought to have to check their umbrellas at the door, they might be a deadly weapon??
Again, you sidestep the question so I will repeat it.
Quote:
But they pray, and they kill, and they repent..... The bible says that's ok, they'll still go to heaven. Can you bame them for playing that game?
Because He isn't a number?
And He is not required for a functioning universe.
Are you suggesting that the animal kingdom, as a whole has avoided 'incest'??
No, I merely provided an example of how moral behaviour can develop in a species with limited intellectual powers without a sky god giving explicit instructions. So is it so hard to assume that it could not have happened again?
No it doesn't, that is probably why you do not show us the calendar exactly.
Furthermore, a lot of that stuff is based on assumptions. The sothic cycle, and the dog star, for example. They actually don't really even know for sure that is was Sirius. If, for example, early Egypt was before the split, all current guesses are off.
As opposed to your assumptions?
Like this famous split, for example?
I see. So, what, you want some other country to have them, that you think will protect you?
I'd rather we didn't need to threaten anyone with total destruction, I'm suprised you don't agree with this.
Well, if the main cause of the HIV in South America, (and you brought it up) was sodomy, that is what needs to be addressed. Obviously. If you defend it, you are to blame directly.
Condom use would still be useful, but I actually referred to Africa and the Pope's line of condoms = hell.
Better than blowing up the planet, in my opinion.
And he Jews could have done that, could they?
 
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