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No assumption of a same state past is tied to science, except in the fabric of dreams. Nothing you or anyone else will ever be able to do can change the glaring obvious fact, that science cannot tell us the state of the future.
In a sense, this is true. Science works equally as well if the past was constant as if it changed. However, a changing past has consequences, and measurable ones at that. It would, in short, be detectable. We have tried to detect deviations from constancy in natural law, and find no significant change for 13.7 billion years.
Right, but it only works here, in this state, and can't tell if the state is the same or not.
We are the change from the other state, and we detect it. In fact, that is ALL we can detect, as it is all science ever knew.
True, I don't make that assumption, can't blame me there, you are the one that said it! I assume a past and future along the lines as God speaks of them in the bible. That would be different, not 'constant'.
False, and if you give an example, we might see precisely why.
They have a certain relationship to each other, in this state, and they likely also had a different relationship to each other, in the different state. Either way, we still get a line up. It just doesn't line up for the mythical reasons you have assumed.
Because the relationship now is decay related.
Because you look at it through the looking glass of a same state myth. How else could it look? Having a lot of a certain material, that now happens to be in a slow state of decay is not related to great time. It is related to the present state of the universe, and matter, and laws, and how the materials we were left with at the state change now react, and behave, and relate to each other. Meaningless, to the future, or to a past, unless the universe is the same. Utterly. Absolutely. Your great problem is that your present science cannot address the issue even, except by assuming, believing, supposing, what iffing, guessing, and making stuff up!
Thanks for your contribution there, but there is just one a in dad. It is in the middle of the 2 d's. Ask your mom, if you think I am pulling your leg.
They line up here, because they exist here, and exist in a decay state. What else can they do?
Same way one would explain a present rock entering the new heavens state. Once it got there, the materials in it would not be in a decay state. The line up would represent the forever state reality of the day. The only way it is absurdly easy to explain materials as if they were old, is by assuming what you can't prove about the past to be true! By the same token, it is easy to explain it in the light of a different state future. A line up is a relationship to other materials, defined by the state of the universe, and laws they happen to be in. Nothing special about a temporary state universe arrangement, and no reason to assume it represents eternal realities, or creation state realities.
It is a thing of note, that realizing the bible is true after all is mind boggling, considering the lies that were foisted on us in the name of good science. Getting to the truth is the most worthwhile of endeavors.
Right, but that is all in box, in fishbowl, in present temporary state stuff. The line up is merely the ratio relationship, which is merely the way were were left with things. Interpreting that info as if it always were from this state is daft. Unless, of course, there was a temporary present type state in the past, which you have no way of knowing. Just outlining your ignorance for you there, it isn't your fault, that is just the way it is.
Because it is reflective of this universe state reality. It is not a question of whether decay happens, and what materials it involves, and whether daughter/parent relationships exist now. They do. Can you think of any reason that materials in their proportions left to us from some other universe state, would not now assume a decay state arrangement? But neither can I think of any reason that this present association and relationship should exist in some forever new heavens state. Can you??? As the spiritual is added, and a new universe state comes to exist, then the forces that govern the atomic level, and all things, snap into their created state arrangements. No longer would a daughter be a daughter, but merely a part in the process that the forever state involves. Since there will be no time in the present sense, and matter can last forever there, the materials, if from a forever state, cannot represent our space/ time fabric, which will cease to exist.
The pattern naturally would appear as the universe state appeared, and we entered the temporary decaying state. The change from the forever state to the temporary state, as I see it, would not cause the pattern, but merely necessitate that the materials do what temporary state materials must do, in the best way they know how, since they now existed in a temporary PO state.
Why? Why would this pattern naturally appear, as opposed to some other pattern, or no pattern at all?
If this were the case, then all rocks that date back to this so-called split would show an age consistent with that split. They don't. They show ages that are much much older. Why is this?
Why would dominoes fall to the left if we knocked them that way? Or to the right if we tapped the first one that way? Why reactions happen in this universe state has to do with the laws, and materials they act on. If the state was different, the reactions on things is also different. It isn't that the dominoes were not there, it is what they do now, and then that counts. You look at things as if they always went down the same way.
Because nothing much happened there to in the way of new materials being added to rocks. They were in there, one assumes, already. The daughter was just not produced by parent decay at the time, it was busy in some forever process, doing something else. You are trying to do guilt by association, that, because the daughter is now produced by decay, she always was. That requires what you don't have, a same state past.
As explained the materials cannot represent dates, in any meaningful way. Unless, as in carbon dating, the half lives are shorter. Even there, they cannot be accurate too far nback, because a same past state, carbon levels, and etc etc are assumed. No can do. Without a solidly evidenced, and more or less proven within reason, same state past, calling the ratios dates is bogus.
Right, and if we assume a different state past, we also expect what we see. The question boils down to the state of the past, and that, science cannot tell us.
And if there were no decay, but a different state of being, in an eternal created state, and the universe changed, we would expect to see patterns. We do. The evidence mounts.
They only work in your head, in the imaginary past you have no proof for. That dream world was constructed from a same state model, and only same state stuff could work there.
Or how they manufacture baby bottles, but that is because what is known, is known. That is a simple matter of research. Unlike the directions and precise speeds of light in the third line of the supposed trig triangle of the distant SN. Apparently that is just assumed?
Whatever you believe really is of limited import. As important as it may be to you. Same with me, that is why, before I decide to believe either scenario, the evidence must be there.
I don't see that as a burning question. People work with that all over the earth, and often. Right here, and now, not in imaginary la la lands in their head.
Well, that depends what else you want to know. Look stuff up, we know quite a bit about light. The issue on this thread has been what we knoow about the past, and light there.
Sure it can! Because if we assume a same state past, we can make predictions as to how things in the current state should relate to one another. Those predictions have so far always come out true. Why else would that be unless the past actually was the same?
It's not as interesting as it sounds. The statistics aren't powerful enough to say that it isn't a simple Gaussian random field. And, furthermore, it might not be in the real CMB at all, but might only appear to the the bending of light from local structure.Even in the heavens there are patterns, they are only beginning to discover, such as this
"
And he added: "We found something very bizarre; there is some extra, so far unexplained structure in the CMB.
"We had expected that the microwave background would be truly isotropic, with no preferred direction in space but that may not be the case."
Looking at the symmetry of the CMB - measures technically called its octopole and quadrupole components - the researchers uncovered a curious pattern.
They had expected to see no pattern at all but what they saw was anything but random."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2814947.stm
