The Challenger

[AV1611VET]

I don't mean to bring up an explosive topic, but looking at the video of the most unfortunate Challenger disaster, I hear the ground technician say:

"Obviously a major malfunction."

May I ask what malfunctioned?

If I drop an egg, and it breaks, is that a malfunction?

If I drop and egg, and it doesn't break, is that a malfunction? (I suspect it is.)

 

[RickG]

I don't mean to bring up an explosive topic, but looking at the video of the most unfortunate Challenger disaster, I hear the ground technician say:

"Obviously a major malfunction."

May I ask what malfunctioned?

If I drop an egg, and it breaks, is that a malfunction?

If I drop and egg, and it doesn't break, is that a malfunction? (I suspect it is.)

 

[AV1611VET]

If that's an O-ring, Rick, did it malfunction with respect to the forces acting on it, or in spite of the forces acting on it?

If it malfunctioned with respect to the forces acting on it, then why is it being called a 'malfunction?'

 

[Nabobalis]

If that's an O-ring, Rick, did it malfunction with respect to the forces acting on it, or in spite of the forces acting on it?

If it malfunctioned with respect to the forces acting on it, then why is it being called a 'malfunction?'

It malfunctioned due to the forces acting on it when it was too cold.

People call it a malfunction because it was designed to do something and it failed to do it. You could say it broke, but malfunction is a longer word.

Why did you start a thread to argue semantics?

 

[AV1611VET]

It malfunctioned due to the forces acting on it when it was too cold.

I take it then, that you don't agree with the point I made about the egg in my OP?

People call it a malfunction because it was designed to do something and it failed to do it.

So the intent followed the design, or the design followed the intent?

You could say it broke, but malfunction is a longer word.

'Malfunction' makes it look like it did something contrary to the forces acting on it.

If I drop and egg and it 'malfunctions,' does it break?

Why did you start a thread to argue semantics?

Please just answer the questions -- thanks.

 

[Nabobalis]

I take it then, that you don't agree with the point I made about the egg in my OP?

An egg is used to make food. Dropping an egg breaks the egg but isn't a malfunction.

So the intent followed the design, or the design followed the intent?

Design generally follows the intent.

'Malfunction' makes it look like it did something contrary to the forces acting on it.

It was designed to hold together and it failed therefore it malfunctioned.

If I drop and egg and it 'malfunctions,' does it break?

No. Here is the definition of malfunction.

mal·func·tion/malˈfəNGkSHən/

Verb: (of a piece of equipment or machinery) Fail to function normally or satisfactorily.
Noun: A failure to function in a normal or satisfactory manner: "a computer malfunction".[/quote

An egg's function has nothing to do being dropped and surviving.

Please just answer the questions -- thanks.

Why? You are in a science sub-forum arguing about semantics. Look a thesaurus and a dictionary.

I think after this post, this thread should be dedicated to cakes and how they are a lie.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Was the announcer in shock when he said "malfunction?" Did he know what the cause was at that moment in time?

 

[AV1611VET]

Was the announcer in shock when he said "malfunction?" Did he know what the cause was at that moment in time?

Actually, I considered that before I started this thread; and wondered how I would respond if someone brought it up.

I don't work for NASA, but a very good friend of ours worked for the government, and she was given a list of words and explanations that you don't use when dealing with the public.

One on that list is, you never tell the public your organization, "made a mistake;" instead, you tell them that a "miscalculation" has occurred, and that it is being looked into.

You don't tell someone, "you're wrong;" instead, you tell them "the facts don't agree with your assessment."

I don't fault the ground technician, but it's years later, and Internet scientists are still agreeing with him.
<edit>

 

[TeddyReceptus]

This is a fantastic question. Is it a malfunction when something fails at a point that it should fail at?

Well, yes and no. Perhaps the "malfunction" would be in taking a system to its breaking point and beyond and then expecting it to function as if it were not beyond the functional envelope it was designed for.

I don't know what the "specs" were for the O-Ring in Challenger but it does appear to have failed due to temperatures.

A malfunction can still be considered if the system as a whole has a piece in it that doesn't handle a given condition but someone decided to run it at that condition or even if no one knew it was going to fail under those conditions it could still be a malfunction if the system overall failed due to everything acting in accordance with the laws of nature.

So let's get a little derivative here: Miracles are severe malfunctions of natural law.

A miracle is a malfunction.

 

[AV1611VET]

Can we jump ahead a few steps and ask what your point was in asking the question?

I don't particularly care for the Challenger disaster being referred to as a 'malfunction.'

The fact that the O-rings were 'redesigned' (a.k.a. fixed) tells me that scientists have ways of covering their tracks with semantics.

If they would have used hula hoops, instead of O-rings, would you have accepted 'malfunction?'

 

[Non sequitur]

I don't mean to bring up an explosive topic, but looking at the video of the most unfortunate Challenger disaster, I hear the ground technician say:

"Obviously a major malfunction."

May I ask what malfunctioned?

If I drop an egg, and it breaks, is that a malfunction?

If I drop and egg, and it doesn't break, is that a malfunction? (I suspect it is.)

Malfunction - Fail to function normally or satisfactorily.

Neither.

An o-ring is something physically manufactured by people to serve specific purpose(s), under certain conditions.

An egg shell is something that occurs naturally to serve specific purpose(s), under certain conditions.

Now, if you genetically engineered an egg shell to withstand x force, under x circumstances, and it failed, then yes. It would have malfunctioned.

 

[Jazer]

May I ask what malfunctioned?

Perhaps you may want to read the report. I have a friend that works for NASA. She said they often do not know what the overall project is. They just work on their small part of it. That is why I tend to trust NASA more because if they screw up it could cost someone their life. Rogers Commission Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AV1611VET]

Malfunction - Fail to function normally or satisfactorily.

That's a loaded definition.

What if hula hoops were used instead?

Could they say the Challenger malfunctioned because the hula hoops 'failed to function satisfactorily?'

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps you may want to read the report. I have a friend that works for NASA. She said they often do not know what the overall project is. They just work on their small part of it. That is why I tend to trust NASA more because if they screw up it could cost someone their life. Rogers Commission Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks anyway, Jazer; but I'm not going to read a whole Congressional report, just to find out what malfunctioned?

That's like telling me to read the whole newspaper, if I ask how old Michael Jackson was when he died.

 

[Nabobalis]

That's a loaded definition.

That is the definition of the word. <edit>

 

[Non sequitur]

That's a loaded definition.

Well, that's the definition.

What is the one you care to use?

What if hula hoops were used instead?

Could they say the Challenger malfunctioned because the hula hoops 'failed to function satisfactorily?'

If hula hoops were purposefully used for the function(s) that o-rings are manufactured for, instead of o-rings, technically yes.

However, using something that cannot successfully fulfill the purpose that it was intended for (function) is rather ludicrous.

"The wheelchair malfunctioned, when used as a flotation device."

"The cell phone malfunctioned, when used to cut steak."

So... not sure what conclusion you planned on ending up with, using those analogies.

 

[Split Rock]

That's a loaded definition.

What if hula hoops were used instead?

Could they say the Challenger malfunctioned because the hula hoops 'failed to function satisfactorily?'

If indeed the hula hoops were part of the system as designed, then yes, they could still say it "malfunctioned." It doesn't matter whether or not the system design was a good one or a bad one... a failure is still a failure. In this case, the hula hoops failed to do what they were supposed to do. You can argue that the design was a poor one, but it would still be a "malfunction." One question: Do you really think the guy on the microphone was reading from some script designed to "cover up" for NASA (or for "scientists") when he made that statement?

 

[suzybeezy]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been cleaned up.
By now you guys should know our rule that says "NO FLAMING" if not - here's the link so you can review our complete rules http://www.christianforums.com/rules/#faq_rule_0

MOD HAT OFF

 

[AV1611VET]

One question: Do you really think the guy on the microphone was reading from some script designed to "cover up" for NASA (or for "scientists") when he made that statement?

No.

 

[florida2]

What exactly is the point of this thread?