The Center of this Universe

[Terral]

Hi Assyrian:

Clearly the bible refers to three witnesses to Christ ni 1John 5:8. It does not however say God wrote scripture using His Singularity (or Singularity Code?) whatever that is, or His Three Witness Bible Code. Nor does it tell us we should decode the bible by using this code we are not told about.

We already know that Assyrian does not see it, so there is no need to belabor the point . . .

Yet Paul also went to the apostles in Jerusalem to see if the revelation he was preaching was right Gal 2:2. He also told the Church in Corinth to use their discernment about prophecies brought to them.

Paul was sent up to Jerusalem to ‘submit the gospel I preach among the Gentiles’ (Gal. 2:1-2) where we find Paul correcting Peter over the “truth of the gospel.” Gal. 2:14. The idea that you have Paul checking with Peter to see if his “Gospel to the Uncircumcised” (Gal. 2:7) was right (heh) is very much ridiculous. If you really want to wade into the deep end of the doctrinal pool, then 'quote >>' anything from the "Two Gospels" Opening Post and offer your opposing views using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. The topic of ‘this’ debate is the “Center of the Universe” if memory serves and I offered you links to these other topics in order to help keep this discussion on track . . .

The odd thing is, your revelation is one area where TEs and YECs seem in complete agreement. For once I agreed with YEC Mark Kennedy when he said:
shernren gave his analysis of your posts as: You could only reply with your laughing dog pictures. It seem he was right that you have a filter to read scripture through, it is your God's Singularity/Three Witness Bible Code.

Apparently you guys have run out of ‘Center of the Universe’ arguments from science or Scripture. The Logos (John 1:2) is a Singularity and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19) is a Trinity. Too simple. :0) Adam (Gen. 2:7) is a singularity and Adam, her seed and Eve is a trinity. ‘Eth Erets (the earth of Gen. 1:1) is a singularity and heavens, heaven and earth is a trinity. I have shown you guys these things using Scripture and diagrams and you insist on remaining in ignorance by yapping about laughing dogs and bad analysis about filters and other nonsense.

That is not Strongs concordance, that is the Blue Letter Bible concordance using Strong's numbers. In contrast The King James Concordance lists 111 times the word is translated in the OT, and this for a word that is usually not translated.

Where is that laughing dog link? :0)

Here is a link to Genesis 1 in Hebrew where I have got google to highlighted the 26 times eth is used in just the first chapter of the bible.

Perhaps using that Google Lexicon is the problem. :0)

Scripture says God created but it does not say how he created.

This appears to be the thread for obtaining the most ridiculous comments about the origins and the center of the universe. If your Bible were truly Living ‘and’ Active (Heb. 4:12), then you would be asking God about these things through the Spirit of His Living Word. God explains Himself, The Word and Creation in Genesis through Revelation and not just in Genesis 1:1 that describes the perfect and mature God, Heaven/Word, Earth/Adam ‘before’ they become divided into their three witnesses of Rev. 1:8, Matt. 28:19 and Gen. 1:6-8 respectively.

I am afraid your laughing dog has not answered any of my points. Where does the bible say the creation in Gen 1:1 was perfect, and where does it say the earth of Gen 1:1 became formless and void?

Please forgive, but these questions have been answered already and Assyrian will likely be the very last to understand the substance of the answer.

And if you are going to complain that Gen 1:1 says created rather than Big Bang, where does Gen 1:2 say Big Bang? At least Gen 1:1 describes the creation of the universe. Where is a creation of the universe described in Gen 1:2?

By nonsense you mean claims you cannot support?

Assyrian is not willing to accept the supported answers . . .

How do people die in Adam in Gen 1:2 before Adam was created?

‘Eth Erets (Gen. 1:1) is an incarnation of Adam from God’s Infinite Realm like ‘Eth Shamayim is The Word/Heaven, as already presented far too many times to an unbeliever using diagrams like this (singularities) and this (trinities). God originally created Adam (a son of God) in His Infinite Realm where Satan murdered him like Cain murdered Abel. If you had actually taken the time to read through my work above, then we would not be looking at these already-answered questions . . .

Why should the death of Adam occur in Gen 1:2 before he ate the fruit which is when God said he would die.

Adam died in God’s Infinite Realm where “you are gods” (Ps. 82:6, Jn 10:34 = far left), before God remade him as ‘Eth Erets in Genesis 1:1. The Big Bang in Genesis 1:2 marks the ‘second’ time that Adam died to mirror the same event happening in God’s Infinite Realm, but this time ‘inside’ the created envelope of time and space. God’s Infinite Realm remains “frozen” (explained in first link in this OP here = repeating myself time and time again) from our temporal perspective, which means this universe was pierced/divided (Gen. 1:2) ‘and’ will be put back together again (1Cor. 15:27-28) in the flash of a single instant from the perspective of the ‘gods’ in God’s Infinite Realm all looking at this “Satan murdered Adam” event in complete horror. The fruit represents Satan’s evil seed including the members of his pathetic body ‘and’ all of the ‘gods’ who helped him murder Adam in God’s Infinite Realm in the first place. They entered this universe in ‘this darkness’ (Eph. 6:12) that fell in Genesis 1:2 ‘and’ in the fruit given to Eve and then to Adam (Gen. 3:6).

God cast Satan and his cronies down from His Infinite Realm (diagram = top) for Michael the Archangel to throw Satan’s sorry behind out of ‘Heaven’ (Rev. 12:7-8), which is the “Highest Heaven” of 1Kings 8:27 and “Heaven” of Genesis 1. Therefore, God is setting the stage for Satan’s ‘third’ and final battle and judgment by forcing the devil, his beast, their false prophet and his evil seed to incarnate inside Adam’s broken body (this visible universe) where ALL of them will end up in the lake of fire. Rev. 19:20, 20:10-15, 21:8. The Dragon (spirit), Beast (blood) and their False Prophet (water witness helper) are all “one” and the same evil host in God’s Infinite Realm where Adam was murdered in the first place. This operation has ‘three’ fulfillments, because the singularity “Satan” from God’s Infinite Realm is broken down into a ‘trinity’ like everything else in this broken universe.

Are you saying Adam was reincarnated and died twice?

Since you do not even read from my work on this or any thread, then repeating myself time and time again is throwing effort after folly. God’s two witnesses (Adam and Eve) are the SAME THING in God’s Infinite Realm with ‘her seed’ being the members of Adam’s Infinite Body. Therefore, Adam’s true incarnation is as a ‘son of God’ in God’s Infinite Realm where he is currently DEAD with his insides scattered all over the place. God then remade Adam perfect and mature as ‘Eth Erets in Genesis 1:1 to mirror his ‘pre-fall’ (before Satan murdered him) condition. The Big Bang (Gen. 1:2) made all of that formless and void to duplicate the exact conditions of DEAD ADAM in God’s Infinite Realm, which makes everything in this now broken universe a ‘water witness helper’ duplicate of the true ‘spirit witness’ Adam that is DEAD. God then began ‘reconstituting’ the remains (waters above and waters below the expanse = Gen. 1:6-8) into the heavens (Adam’s spirit), heaven (Adam’s soul) and earth (Adam’s body = Eve) depicted at the bottom of this diagram with his head (spirit/heavens) facing your right. Christ Jesus (F+S+HS) is upon His altar facing the same direction in the “God Restoring His Son” position in the ‘almost infinite’ realm (Heaven of Gen. 1:1) that also has taken on a ‘triune’ nature like this heavens, heaven and earth below. When Christ says, “on earth as it is IN HEAVEN” (like Matt. 6:10, 16:19, 18:18, etc.), then He is talking about things in ‘this Adamic universe’ (Earth of Genesis 1:1) and those things in the “Highest Heaven” (Heaven of Gen. 1:1).

Where is the evidence Adam was there in Gen 1:1? Why would you think Paul is referring to Gen 1:2 which does not mention Adam, instead of Gen 3 which mentions not only Adam but God warning that he would die if he sinned.

The guy reads my posts like this and then asks “Where is the evidence?!!” That is funny too . . . :0)

The universe benig held together in Christ does not make the universe Christ, or the heavens of Gen 1:1 Christ.

So much of your theology is based upon what ‘is not.’ Nobody is saying Christ is the universe and the fact that you can even suggest that proves you do NOT read from my work. Adam is ‘Eth Erets of Genesis 1:1 and Christ is the Heaven/Word IN whom all things were created. Col. 1:17. Christ is the ‘almost infinite’ universe (Heaven of Gen. 1:1) that contains this universe like this (pic). God is the golden yellow sphere that is INFINITE. Christ (F+S+HS) is the red sphere (Heaven of Gen. 1:1) that holds this universe (blue sphere) together. This is God (yellow), The Word/Heaven (red) and Adam/The Earth (blue) of Genesis 1:1 and as Singularity Expressions. Anyone to conclude that Christ is the blue sphere is NOT even trying to pay attention.

OK I accept you distinction between the heavens of Gen 1:1 and the firmament God later created which he called the heavens.

No. Heaven in Genesis 1:1 is SINGULAR, just like “God” of the same verse.

I also agree that the heavens (and Paul mentions that there are at least three of them). Meanings range from the sky, the universe the, spiritual realm with IIRC the suggestion God dwells above that. However the problem is not helped by the fact the OT always uses the plural form heavens, and it is very difficult to connect specific reference to the heavens to our modern understanding of cosmology.

That is the reason you have me to help sort things out properly using Scripture and a host of diagrams. :0)

A lot of folks here think the firmament in Gen 1 is a simplified description of the sky. Anyway, no matter how you read it, it does not say the heavens is the Word, or the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

Where is that laughing dog when you need him? :0) Here is a little clue: Seeds of truth finding a stony heart never germinate to become anything.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[birdan]

Wow, the latter part of this thread reminds me of the infamous timecube website.

 

[Assyrian]

That is not Strongs concordance, that is the Blue Letter Bible concordance using Strong's numbers. In contrast The King James Concordance lists 111 times the word is translated in the OT, and this for a word that is usually not translated.

Where is that laughing dog link? :0)

Here is a link to Genesis 1 in Hebrew where I have got google to highlighted the 26 times eth is used in just the first chapter of the bible.
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cach...-א+ואת+OR+את+OR+אתם+OR+אתו&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

Perhaps using that Google Lexicon is the problem. :0)

Who said anything about Google lexicon? I showed you a link with all the 26 times eth is used in Genesis 1. Now you could have looked at the words I highlighted and checked if the same word eth that appears twice in Gen 1:1, you could have looked up the verses in the Blue Letter Bible to see if there was some other possible meaning to the 24 other times eth is used.

Or you could dismiss the argument with your laughing dog and blame it on a google lexicon I didn't use.

Clearly the bible refers to three witnesses to Christ in 1John 5:8. It does not however say God wrote scripture using His Singularity (or Singularity Code?) whatever that is, or His Three Witness Bible Code. Nor does it tell us we should decode the bible by using this code we are not told about.

Hi Assyrian:

We already know that Assyrian does not see it, so there is no need to belabor the point . . .

Clearly there is no point. I have asked you again and again for evidence from scripture to back up your claims. You are either unwilling or unable to support these bizarre ideas, and instead try to blame the other person. You seem to believe your claims sincerely and fervently, but you should ask yourself, if you are unable to provide any scriptural basis when you are asked, could your own imagination be deceiving you?

 

[Terral]

Hi Assyrian:

Who said anything about Google lexicon? I showed you a link with all the 26 times eth is used in Genesis 1.

Would that be ‘eth (#853), or ‘eth (#854), or eth (#855a) or eth (#855b)?? Assyrian is running to ‘Google’ (heh) ‘eth, when he has no “Center of the Universe” argument from Scripture, Science or the man in the cotton picking moon. :0) Anyone interested can click here to see the Hebrew roots for every word used in Genesis 1:1. Then simply click on ‘eth (#0853) to see what these scholars have placed under H853 for this Hebrew ‘particle’ that is “NOT TRANSLATED” in your Bible. The Authorized Version (KJV) includes a Translation count of “22” with the first two appearing in Genesis 1:1 connected directly to Heaven and Earth. The third use appears in Genesis 1:4 connected directly to the “Light,” which is the same “Light” of John 1:4-9 sent into the world (‘Eth Erets) to save sinners. Since that is not written in Gen. 1:1, then maybe Assyrian missed it. :0) The Root Word (Etymology) says, “apparent contracted from H226 in the demonstrative sense of ENTITY,” which might make sense for those recognizing ‘the Light’ (Gen. 1:3) as Christ coming into the world (John 1:4-9), but not so easy to recognize in the ENTITIES described in Genesis 1:1 as “Heaven” (The Word) and “Earth” (Adam). I realize that these things are very difficult for people to understand, but these are the things that God Himself has shown me through His Living Word over the course of decades.

Now you could have looked at the words I highlighted and checked if the same word eth that appears twice in Gen 1:1, you could have looked up the verses in the Blue Letter Bible to see if there was some other possible meaning to the 24 other times eth is used.

I am not here to convince Assyrian of ANYTHING, but ‘the truth’ is being presented for the benefit of the unbiased third-party reader interested in knowing more about how Scripture tells us the location of the “Center of the Universe.” If Assyrian wants to Google up something to prop up ‘his’ Center of the Universe arguments, then Git-R-Done! :0)

Clearly there is no point. I have asked you again and again for evidence from scripture to back up your claims. You are either unwilling or unable to support these bizarre ideas, and instead try to blame the other person. You seem to believe your claims sincerely and fervently, but you should ask yourself, if you are unable to provide any scriptural basis when you are asked, could your own imagination be deceiving you?

The reason Assyrian is asking so many questions is because he has no “Center of the Universe” case from Scripture or anywhere else. My job here is to present ‘my’ Center of the Universe Case using Scripture, diagrams, the Hebrew/Greek Lexicons to the best of my God-given ability and NOT to educate my debating ‘adversaries’ with no case for anything. Try asking questions of your debating ‘advocates’ on ‘your’ side of this debate and perhaps they will be inclined to sit down and provide answers.

Here are the facts about the Center of the Universe:

‘Eth Erets (the Earth of Gen. 1:1) was created perfect, mature and complete BY GOD and that perfect creation HAD A CENTER. This means at one time, IN THE BEGINNING, everything in this now broken universe was ONE THING and that ONE THING was “Adam.” The Creation (Adam) was pierced/broken with the Big Bang that took place in Genesis 1:2, when the earth became formless and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep. God then had to sacrifice/pierce His Perfect “Word/Heaven” into the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, so He could then send Him (the Light) into this now ‘triune’ universe. God then gathered the waters ‘above’ the expanse (heavens) and the waters ‘below’ the expanse (earth) to rejoin them together where “heaven” (Gen. 1:8) became the 'only begotten' of this universe. When you put the heavens and earth back together again (like this), then the ‘center’ of the universe MUST be found somewhere in “heaven.”

When you become accustomed to using these ‘three witness’ diagrams (my thread), then the day will come when you realize that all of God’s Singularities are broken down into Trinities where the ‘blood witness’ occupies the ‘center’ of the three witness mystery set. Your soul is testifying from the ‘center’ of your being between your spirit (spirit witness) and body (water witness) in the very same way (diagram). To speculate that ‘your center’ is somewhere in your physical body is to DENY the very existence of the spirit ‘and’ soul. God has taken on a ‘triune image’ (pic) like the “Word” (F+S+HS) has taken on a ‘triune’ image like this Creation (Fig. 3 = heavens, heaven and earth) has taken on a ‘triune’ image like ALL of God’s three witness mystery sets that includes God’s very throne (diagram = top of Fig 1)!!! That’s right! God’s Throne is currently ‘triune’ like Christ’s Throne and David’s Throne (diagram) located in the ‘center’ of this world (link) and the center of this universe.

The “Center of the Universe” is located in the very “center of the throne” (Rev. 7:17) where the Lamb is served by a water witness (Body of Moses/Eve) and a spirit witness (angels = Body of Elijah/Adam) on either side, which is typical of the “True Tabernacle” (Heb. 8:1-2) where Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God. The “Lamb of God” is the ‘incarnation’ of Christ Jesus (F+S+HS) who has been in heaven since the “Light” was sent into this universe to save sinners. When John the Baptist (Elijah/David/Adam) proclaimed that Jesus Christ is the “Lamb of God” (John 1:29, 36), then he was NOT pointing to Calvary; but was pointing into ‘heaven’ (diagram*) where the Lamb of God has been standing and removing sin from the world (universe) since God sent Him in the very beginning. Note from the diagram* that the Lamb of God is positioned directly in the ‘center’ of “This Creation” and directly in the center of “Heaven” marking the “Center of the Universe,” while standing directly in the ‘center of the throne’ (Rev. 7:17).

Why in the Center of the Universe? The answer is that Christ Jesus also has a ‘center’ where the Father and Holy Spirit have overlapped to beget the “Son” and that is the exact position of where God is seated IN His Son (diagram) in the Highest Heaven! This does not even seem possible, because heaven and even this “Highest Heaven” cannot contain God (1Kings 8:27)! Right? :0) Wrong. Only those knowing the deepest secrets of God Himself know that the “Second Veil” (show accurately here) is wrapped so tightly around God’s throne, that all the sons of God combined cannot move the thing a single millimeter. :0) The Second Veil is wrapped tightly around God’s Throne IN His Son (Christ Jesus) like a typewriter ribbon extending from the infinite future (God To Come) to the infinite past (God Who Was) with “God Who Is” seated in the center of the throne like the Lamb ‘and like David in the ‘center of the throne’ that represents this entire ‘visible’ universe. Therefore, we can extrapolate from ‘knowing’ about the ‘relationships’ between God, The Word/Heaven/Christ and Adam/The Earth that the ‘Center of the Universe’ is where the Lamb is standing in the ‘center of the throne’ ‘and’ the center of this ‘visible’ universe is this Milky Way Galaxy and our solar system and the Middle East and in the “Tabernacle of David/Adam” that is about to be restored and rebuilt (Acts 15:16-18 = diagram).

That “Tabernacle of David/Adam” is the restored water witness earthy testament to the “Garden of Eden” (pic = far left) where the Lord God (Christ) formed His son of God (Luke 3:38) to sit on an earthly throne to represent this entire universe in one “man of the earth” ('Eth Erets) sent from God. Why is that location in the center of this earth ‘and’ the location in the center of the visible universe so very important? :0) Think about that fact that ‘death’ is eliminated and thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14) to start the coming new age in Revelation 21:1+. How are the people of this universe going to die and go to heaven? :0) That is where “Jacob’s Ladder” (Gen. 28:12) comes into play where David (Adam) will send completed/mature souls up to stand before and serve The Lamb (diagram again)! Then consider that God is going to remake the Heaven and Earth, so that the ‘enlarging’ universe begins to ‘contract’ upon itself to obtain a ‘blue-shift’ quality. Every space ship-flying son of Adam will then be capable of charting a course to the ‘Center of the Universe’ by locating the central spot where all matter in this universe is heading. :0) Each time this universe is remade (like Rev. 21:1) for each of the ‘ages to come’ (Eph. 2:7), then the galaxy chains and galaxies will be remade closer together; until creation itself takes on the freedom of the glory of the children of God (Rom. 8:20-22) and David can send all the members of his body up Jacob’s Ladder, before eventually making that journey for the final time himself and God can become ‘all in all’ (diagram) again. 1Cor. 15:28.

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral

 

[Molal]

Terral,

You really need to discuss the ISSUE and not the PERSON. Please layoff the flames and the baits.

 

[Terral]

Hi Molal:

You really need to discuss the ISSUE and not the PERSON. Please layoff the flames and the baits.

You are right and I was wrong for allowing myself to get caught up in petty bickering. I will do my very best to speak to 'the topic' and the 'arguments' and not the 'person' in the future. Hopefully my debating adversaries will do the same. Thank you for pointing out the weakness in my testimony, so that my future presentations can be seen in a greater Light. :0)

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Molal]

Hi Molal:



You are right and I was wrong for allowing myself to get caught up in petty bickering. I will do my very best to speak to 'the topic' and the 'arguments' and not the 'person' in the future. Hopefully my debating adversaries will do the same. Thank you for pointing out the weakness in my testimony, so that my future presentations can be seen in a greater Light. :0)

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Thank you my friend We all fall short of the Glory of God - I am no better than the next

Molal

 

[Nathan45]

Well if anyone is wondering where i've been during this whole discussion, the power has been out in my part of Texas since Saturday.

No TV and no Internet make Nathan a dull boy.

OK, I think I got the answer of my OP. It is an ignorant question. Thanks to all.

Glad you learned something and there are no "ignorant" questions, ignorant people don't ask questions, that's why they're ignorant.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Well if anyone is wondering where i've been during this whole discussion, the power has been out in my part of Texas since Saturday.

No TV and no Internet make Nathan a dull boy.



Glad you learned something and there are no "ignorant" questions, ignorant people don't ask questions, that's why they're ignorant.

Glad you're ok. We got only 1.7 inches. We were slated to get more. I'm just glad I wasn't down south.

 

[Nathan45]

Glad you're ok. We got only 1.7 inches. We were slated to get more. I'm just glad I wasn't down south.

At least I don't live in Galveston.

I'm in Montgomery county, so the storm had to beat through Galveston and Houston first to get to us. Still, there's tree limbs everywhere and the forest seems a lot thinner than it did before!! looks like about 50% of the trees in the parking lot at work are down, and the building is currently bolted shut. (5 day weekend! ). Oh and a tree crashed into my parent's garage, but everyone's OK.

Should be back to normal soon, though, the water is running and the power is back on at least where I am.

 

[Assyrian]

Hi Assyrian:

Would that be ‘eth (#853), or ‘eth (#854), or eth (#855a) or eth (#855b)??

You’re not seriously proposing this as an explanation for all the other 'eth's in Gen 1 are you? Does the Blue Letter Bible list H654 or H855 for any of the 24 other times 'eth comes up in Gen 1? Does it mention in the Outline of Biblical Usage that H654 or H855 are ‘not translated into English‘ the way it does with H834?

H853 'eth sign of the definite direct object, not translated in English but generally preceding and indicating the accusative

If BLB gives you the English translations of H654 and H855, but tells you H853 is not translated, why would you think the untranslated ‘eth’s are H654 or H855?

You should think it through a bit more before you propose alternative translations. See if the words you propose even fit. Lets have at look v 4,
And God saw the light that it was good The 'eth comes before the word light
H853 'eth: sign of the definite direct object, not translated in English
The light is the object of the verb saw, light is also definite, it is the light, and the word is not translated in into English in any Bible version I know of.

Lets try your suggestions:
H854 'eth: with, near, together with
And God saw with the light that it was good… not so good suggests God can't see in the dark
And God saw near the light that it was good…. sounds like a table lamp
And God saw together with the light that it was good…God and the light forming a committee

Then we have
H854 'eth: ploughshare or coulter
And God saw the ploughshare of the light that it was good…light as an agricultural implement? Useful for planting Eden I suppose.

No bible version I know of even hints at these strange translations, they all have light as the definite object of the verb and leave ‘eth untranslated.

Look at the next one
Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse...
Again it is the expanse so it is definite, it is the object of the verb made, and no bible I know of translates 'eth.

But lets look at your suggestions anyway
And God made with the expanse... God made what with the expanse? Or were the angels cheering him on "Make with the expanse already."
And God made near the expanse... made what near the expanse? Or was he sneaking up on it?
And God made together with the expanse... It was a work party then.
And God made the ploughshare of the expanse... Ursa Major?

Assyrian is running to ‘Google’ (heh) ‘eth, when he has no “Center of the Universe” argument from Scripture, Science or the man in the cotton picking moon. :0)

If you could not support your argument when we were discussing the Centre of the Universe, why bring it up now?

Anyone interested can click here to see the Hebrew roots for every word used in Genesis 1:1.

Sure it does, except the words used in Gen 1:1 are not in question, it is all the times ‘eth comes up in the rest of the chapter, and throughout the rest of the OT. You claim they don’t exist apart from the 22 listed in the BLB concordance. I challenged you to look up the verses where I used google to highlighted the ‘eth. Here are a couple.
Gen 1:16
Gen 1:17
Gen 1:22
Compare the verse written out in Hebrew [first box] with the list of root forms [second box].
Does Blue Letter Bible give the Hebrew root forms for every word?
Can you spot all the times את comes up? Try looking up BLB for the other other verses in my highlighted link.

Then simply click on ‘eth (#0853) to see what these scholars have placed under H853 for this Hebrew ‘particle’ that is “NOT TRANSLATED” in your Bible.

As it mention in the Outline of Biblical Usage. Of course when I told you ‘eth was usually not translated, you responded by calling for the laughing dog.

If you want to see what a Hebrew scholar says about the word you think only comes up 22 time, have a look at the Genesius’s Lexicon. Hit the Click Here for the Rest of the Entry link at the bottom of the box to see the full writeup.

Genesius quotes examples from 42 verses that have ‘eth. Gen 1:1, Gen 32:1, Gen 4:18, Gen 17:5, Gen 21:5, Gen 46:20, Ex 2:1, Ex 10:8, Ex 21:28, Ex. 35:26, Lev 10:18, Num 6:13, Num 11:22, Num 26:55, Num 26:60, Josh 7 :15, Josh 22:17, Josh. 23:15, Ruth 2:15, 1Sam 17:34, 2Sam 18:18, 2Kings 6:5, Est 9:14, Neh 9:9, Prov 13:21, Eccles 3:15, Jer 7:19, Jer 38:16, Ezek 23:45,47, Ezek 34:2,8,10, Ezek 43:7,10, Ezek 47:17,18, 19, Dan 9:13, Hos 10:6, Jonah 1:17 & Hag 2:17. Genesius also says how ‘eth “is very often put before the object of a preposition when it is already definite”.

As an illustration of how common ‘eth is in the bible, I can only find one of these verses, Gen 1:1, which appears in both Genesius and the BLB concordance, even though you think the concordance lists every occurance in the bible. However having one verse in common is about the hit rate you would expect if ‘eth occurred 11060 times in 6812 verses throughout the bible. It is certainly not what you would expect if ‘eth was only in 22 verses.

The Authorized Version (KJV) includes a Translation count of “22”

Because the word us usually not translated…

[quote]with the first two appearing in Genesis 1:1 connected directly to Heaven and Earth. The third use appears in Genesis 1:4 connected directly to the “Light,” [/quote]The word 'eth appears in the bible 11060 times connected to a wide range of different words, why is its one use in the bible connected with light, indicating light is the definite object of the verb saw, any more significant than the 11059 other times 'eth it is used? You are ignoring the real meaning of scripture and making up meanings to suit you bible code.

which is the same “Light” of John 1:4-9 sent into the world (‘Eth Erets) to save sinners. Since that is not written in Gen. 1:1, then maybe Assyrian missed it. :0)

Or it might be because John is written in Greek and says τον κοσμον rether than v‘eth h’erets. Greek uses the accusative κοσμον and definite article τον, to indicate the definite object of a verb rather than ‘eth.

The Root Word (Etymology)

says, “apparent contracted from H226 in the demonstrative sense of ENTITY,” which might make sense for those recognizing ‘the Light’ (Gen. 1:3) as Christ coming into the world (John 1:4-9),

Christ as light of the world is a good biblical allegory used by Jesus himself. It does not depend on ignoring the actual meaning of the word 'eth and try to construct new meanings from its etymology. You also need to see the difference between the literal and the metaphorical. Light is a beautiful metaphor for Jesus, and you can even see the light in Genesis as a metaphor for Christ coming into the world. But is does not mean the light God created was Christ.

but not so easy to recognize in the ENTITIES described in Genesis 1:1 as “Heaven” (The Word) and “Earth” (Adam). I realize that these things are very difficult for people to understand, but these are the things that God Himself has shown me through His Living Word over the course of decades.

Except the other possibility is you have wandered off the beaten track seeing connections that aren't real that are just a construct of the system of bible interpretation you have built up. I really encourage you to get back to what the bible actually says. Look at the way people in the bible interpret scripture and learn from them. It is not all bald literalism, there is poetry and metaphor and allegory. But there is no hidden code to interpeting the bible, except maybe in Daniel and Revelation, but those books tell you what the symbols mean, sort of.

I am not here to convince Assyrian of ANYTHING, but ‘the truth’ is being presented for the benefit of the unbiased third-party reader interested in knowing more about how Scripture tells us the location of the “Center of the Universe.” If Assyrian wants to Google up something to prop up ‘his’ Center of the Universe arguments, then Git-R-Done! :0)

The reason Assyrian is asking so many questions is because he has no “Center of the Universe” case from Scripture or anywhere else. My job here is to present ‘my’ Center of the Universe Case using Scripture, diagrams, the Hebrew/Greek Lexicons to the best of my God-given ability and NOT to educate my debating ‘adversaries’ with no case for anything. Try asking questions of your debating ‘advocates’ on ‘your’ side of this debate and perhaps they will be inclined to sit down and provide answers.

Here are the facts about the Center of the Universe:

‘Eth Erets (the Earth of Gen. 1:1) was created perfect, mature and complete BY GOD and that perfect creation HAD A CENTER. This means at one time, IN THE BEGINNING, everything in this now broken universe was ONE THING and that ONE THING was “Adam.” The Creation (Adam) was pierced/broken with the Big Bang that took place in Genesis 1:2, when the earth became formless and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep. God then had to sacrifice/pierce His Perfect “Word/Heaven” into the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, so He could then send Him (the Light) into this now ‘triune’ universe. God then gathered the waters ‘above’ the expanse (heavens) and the waters ‘below’ the expanse (earth) to rejoin them together where “heaven” (Gen. 1:8) became the 'only begotten' of this universe. When you put the heavens and earth back together again (like this), then the ‘center’ of the universe MUST be found somewhere in “heaven.”

When you become accustomed to using these ‘three witness’ diagramsmy thread), then ...

Little point in me addressing this point by point. It is a series of assertions without any evidence to back them up. I have gone through stuff you have written like this before and asked you for scriptural support for each claim you make. You couldn't.

I will wish you God's peace instead.

Cheers Assyrian

 

[Terral]

Hi Assyrian:

Little point in me addressing this point by point.

We agree. You never had a 'Center of the Universe' position in this debate and our gracious Mod has shown me the "Light" about wasting time and words with members without a case for anything. Wrangling endlessly about eth will never blow life into the nostrils of your nonexistent 'Center of the Universe' case.

My position has been presented to my complete satisfaction and everyone is at liberty to make up their own minds. 1Cor. 11:19. GL,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Assyrian]

Assyrian 12th September 2008 07:11 PM

Hi Assyrian:

We agree. You never had a 'Center of the Universe' position in this debate and our gracious Mod has shown me the "Light" about wasting time and words with members without a case for anything. Wrangling endlessly about eth will never blow life into the nostrils of your nonexistent 'Center of the Universe' case.

This is really an odd claim to make, suggesting I've been discussing 'eth to avoid the Big Bang. In fact the post where I began talking 'eth with you also had my last reply to you in our discussion about what scientists say about the Big Bang and how it is not really an 'explosion'. You quoted an wiki article on the big bang and again I pointed out how it did not support your case. You never replied, and AFAICS did not discuss the science after that, though I encouraged you to take the opportunity to learn what the science actually said. The conversation about the scientific nature of the Big Bang continued on for a while with Juv but you stayed clear.

Many scientists call that the Big Bang, as everything in this universe came from a singularity. Time and space are part of that equation . . . The Wiki information says,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

According to the Big Bang model, the universe expanded from an extremely dense and hot state and continues to expand today. A common and useful analogy explains that space itself is expanding, carrying galaxies with it, like raisins in a rising loaf of bread. General relativistic cosmologies, however, do not actually ascribe any 'physicality' to space.

You guys would rather make condescending comments in my direction rather than simply state your case for the Big Bang that is “not like an explosion” and space that does not expand.

So we have the Big Bang as an explosion is 'not really a good analogy'.
And 'space expanding' is a 'useful analogy'.
Which are you going to use?

God reconstituted the 'physical' remains of the now broken universe, so the 'matter' behaves differently than the space in between. The funny part is that if God did not begin remaking things from the remains of the previous 'eth-Erets Creation, then nobody would be here to make any observations about how space and matter behave the same way. :0)

You keep referrring to the earth in Gen 1:1 as eth-Erets (incidentally you are leaving out the conjunction and the definite article). Do you think this Hebrew wording has some special significance other than how it is translated in our bibles 'the earth' as a second subject of 'God created'?

Apart from a few odd claims about what you call The Big Bang Theory of Creation being a myth, you have made no more attempts, to discuss the scientific theory of the Big Bang.

In the mean time we got into a discussion of ‘eth, not to avoid discussing science, that discussion continued after you dropped it, but because it was the only area I found where you were willing to get into a discussion on the biblical basis of your claims

My position has been presented to my complete satisfaction and everyone is at liberty to make up their own minds. 1Cor. 11:19. GL,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Act 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets. You could try to convince us and make you case by expounding scripture. But so far you haven’t done very well. You tell us what you think scripture means, but you don’t provide any scriptural basis for your claims.