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The case against polygamy

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Percivale, Jun 18, 2021.

  1. Estrid

    Estrid Well-Known Member

    +923
    Hong Kong
    Skeptic
    In Relationship
    Any " visceral " reaction is cultural, or jealousy.

    As for me I'd rather be third or fourth with
    someone powerful than number one for a
    pencil neck geek.
     
  2. Percivale

    Percivale Sam Supporter

    903
    +198
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    By the love of the truth do you think it means wanting to know what is really true rather than wanting to be right? That's how I'd like to understand it, I can't say for sure that's how Paul meant it, but it seems likely. To me it seems that caring about truth very often means admitting we don't know for sure.

    Paul says in Romans 7 that if a woman marries another while her husband is alive she commits adultery. The NT may hold men and women to the same standard, since it appears to do so regarding divorce, it presents leadership as being mainly about being a good example, and the requirements for elders, but I wouldn't call that proof. If it does the the NT opposes polygamy but the OT does not, then either the morality of it depends on the context or culture, or it was something permitted "because of the hardness of their hearts."
     
  3. stevevw

    stevevw inquisitive

    +505
    Christian
    Private
    In Australia its illegal. If you’re married and you separate and don't get divorced and then go and get married again that’s illegal. Not that this means much in today’s climate of PC and SSM. The argument would go if a person argues to change the definition of marriage to allow same sex couples to marry based on their legal rights to have the same access to marriage then polygamous couples would be able to do the same and that is what is happening as we speak.

    I think as Christ supports in the Bible that a man and women will come together in marriage and become one flesh is not just about a law but there is good reason which incorporates the physical, mental and spiritual. Just as SSM couples cannot become one flesh polygamous marriages cannot become one flesh. Its impossible to truly fulfil the marriage vows in polygamous marriages. Someone will miss out and be disrespected along the way. One person cannot be everything to 2 people at the same time.

    To me polygamous marriage is like a ownership of property rather than a marriage and that’s what it may have been back in Biblical times. More associated with tradition and ritual law that the true spirit of marriage represents as the union of man and women. That’s why someone is going to be treated like property somewhere along the line in a polygamous marriage.

    But don't be surprised that polygamous marriage won't come in as a legal form of marriage. It’s inevitable. Because SSM couples cannot have children naturally there will be a 3rd person involved. That 3rd person will inevitably argue for rights as well as you cannot have kids by contract as humans are not robots and often have an attachment. Otherwise your making children commodities. So the solution will be 3 way relatioships/marriages which is what is beginning to happen.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
  4. EmethAlethia

    EmethAlethia Newbie

    346
    +86
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Truth is not about what we "feel" or even believe. Everyone "Believes" they have the truth. Atheists, Agnostics, Moslems, Mormons, Jews, Baptists ... Everyone "Believes" they have the truth. Why? They all do the exact same things to hold fast to "What they want to believe" "as" truth.

    If you want to believe something "as" truth what do you do? The same things everyone else who doesn't want the truth does.

    1.) Gather whatever they can “use” to prove what they “want to believe” to be truth.

    2.) Accumulate all evidence they believe proves all opposing views incorrect.

    3.) Assume their beliefs are unquestionable truth, and interpret everything in such a way as to make it all support, or at least not negate, their beliefs. Think about it. If your beliefs are unquestionable truths, all “valid” data, must support … or at least not negate, your infallible beliefs, right?

    4.) Reinterpret, ignore, discredit, invalidate … anything that doesn’t seem to fit with their views, Why? Our beliefs are “Fact” Valid data interpreted correctly can’t contradict the facts.

    5.) Gather all the other experiences, feelings, data … to solidify their beliefs such as signs, wonders, spiritual gifts or facts about your belief group. Things like: we have a burning in the bosom, we speak in tongues, we perform signs or wonders, a statue of Mary came to life and told us our belief groups views are correct, we have prayed to God for the truth and received “feelings” or even signs from heaven. Or, on a more concrete level: Our belief group is the oldest, largest, fastest growing, wealthiest, has the most experts with doctorates… Include anything that adds assurance that your views and belief group have the most truth.

    But then if you do these things, at least be honest and pick what you want to believe first. then go to the experts in the belief groups that hold to those precepts and use the evidence they gather to hold fast to them. That way you can custom design your beliefs to fit your own desires perfectly.
     
  5. ReluctantTheologian

    ReluctantTheologian New Member

    84
    +28
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    The Australian legal definition of 'marriage' is void from a Biblical perspective - please read the AU Federal Marriage Act and lookup how marriage is defined; you will be surprised to find there is nothing but the following phrase: 'an exclusive union of two persons', which from a Biblical perspective has no meaning at all, because it does not define any roles, rights, obligations or substance of what marriage entails. AU law only goes to a lot of detail to what is required administratively in order to become married, and how the process of divorce works, but literally just one sentence on what marriage is.

    So someone can regard themselves 'married' from a Biblical perspective without having a legal Government Marriage Certificate; and that is perfectly legal in Australia. Even more so, Australian law has defined the 'de-facto' partner concept exactly with that purpose in mind; and allows this concept to be applied in 'polygamous' situations.

    It should be observed that Government registered/certified marriages are a relatively late invention; in Biblical times this was not the case, so Christians cannot credibly argue Government recognition is required for a marriage to be a marriage in God's eyes.
     
  6. EmethAlethia

    EmethAlethia Newbie

    346
    +86
    Non-Denom
    Married
    First, you are correct. Most people respond from their "Feelings" based on their backgrounds and upbringing.

    Second, where was Adam going to get a second wife? And the question is, if you have a dozen wives, are you not "one flesh" with each of them? That was the definition of marriage. David was one flesh with about 18-28 depending on how you interpret passages and O.T. traditional teachings. He committed adultery once and then took at least ten more wives. Solomon was never accused of adultery.

    the new testament passage that quotes that Genesis verse about becoming one flesh was quoted to answer when / who you can divorce. If it means, any woman you have sex with is your wife forever the response of the crowd, who all believed in polygamy being acceptable, even if they didn't practice it be cause the scriptures teach that it is, would have gone nuts.

    "What do you mean only the first wife is approved by God? What do you mean that was God's plan from the beginning? Jesus. are you saying that only my first wife is God approved and that I can divorce all wives after that with impunity? My first born son is from my second wife. My first wife had a son after her. Does that mean that I have to disinherit my first born son? If you are the second born son in this situation, do you get to boot the second wife and her kids to the curb? What is Jesus saying about lawful divorce?

    As far as polygamous relationships working out badly, God says that His wives committed adultery against Him as well. That would seem to make your point.

    Jer 3:6 Then the LORD said to me in the days of Josiah the king, "Have you seen what faithless Israel did? She went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and she was a harlot there. 7 "I thought, 'After she has done all these things she will return to Me'; but she did not return, and her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 "And I saw that for all the adulteries of faithless Israel, I had sent her away and given her a writ of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear; but she went and was a harlot also. 9 "Because of the lightness of her harlotry, she polluted the land and committed adultery with stones and trees. 10 "Yet in spite of all this her treacherous sister Judah did not return to Me with all her heart, but rather in deception," declares the LORD. 11 And the LORD said to me, "Faithless Israel has proved herself more righteous than treacherous Judah.

    Eze 23:1 The word of the LORD came to me again, saying, 2 "Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother; 3 and they played the harlot in Egypt. They played the harlot in their youth; there their breasts were pressed and there their virgin bosom was handled. 4 "Their names were Oholah the elder and Oholibah her sister. And they became Mine, and they bore sons and daughters. And as for their names, Samaria is Oholah and Jerusalem is Oholibah. 5 "Oholah played the harlot while she was Mine; and she lusted after her lovers, after the Assyrians, her neighbors, 6 who were clothed in purple, governors and officials, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding on horses. 7 "She bestowed her harlotries on them, all of whom were the choicest men of Assyria; and with all whom she lusted after, with all their idols she defiled herself. 8 "She did not forsake her harlotries from the time in Egypt; for in her youth men had lain with her, and they handled her virgin bosom and poured out their lust on her. 9 "Therefore, I gave her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, after whom she lusted. 10 "They uncovered her nakedness; they took her sons and her daughters, but they slew her with the sword. Thus she became a byword among women, and they executed judgments on her. 11 "Now her sister Oholibah saw this, yet she was more corrupt in her lust than she, and her harlotries were more than the harlotries of her sister. 12 "She lusted after the Assyrians, governors and officials, the ones near, magnificently dressed, horsemen riding on horses, all of them desirable young men. 13 "I saw that she had defiled herself; they both took the same way. 14 "So she increased her harlotries. And she saw men portrayed on the wall, images of the Chaldeans portrayed with vermilion, 15 girded with belts on their loins, with flowing turbans on their heads, all of them looking like officers, like the Babylonians in Chaldea, the land of their birth. 16 "When she saw them she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 "The Babylonians came to her to the bed of love and defiled her with their harlotry. And when she had been defiled by them, she became disgusted with them. 18 "She uncovered her harlotries and uncovered her nakedness; then I became disgusted with her, as I had become disgusted with her sister. 19 "Yet she multiplied her harlotries, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the harlot in the land of Egypt. 20 "She lusted after their paramours, whose flesh is like the flesh of donkeys and whose issue is like the issue of horses. 21 "Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom because of the breasts of your youth. 22 "Therefore, O Oholibah, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Behold I will arouse your lovers against you, from whom you were alienated, and I will bring them against you from every side: 23 the Babylonians and all the Chaldeans, Pekod and Shoa and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them; desirable young men, governors and officials all of them, officers and men of renown, all of them riding on horses. 24 'They will come against you with weapons, chariots and wagons, and with a company of peoples. They will set themselves against you on every side with buckler and shield and helmet; and I will commit the judgment to them, and they will judge you according to their customs. 25 'I will set My jealousy against you, that they may deal with you in wrath. They will remove your nose and your ears; and your survivors will fall by the sword. They will take your sons and your daughters; and your survivors will be consumed by the fire. 26 'They will also strip you of your clothes and take away your beautiful jewels. 27 'Thus I will make your lewdness and your harlotry brought from the land of Egypt to cease from you, so that you will not lift up your eyes to them or remember Egypt anymore.' 28 "For thus says the Lord GOD, 'Behold, I will give you into the hand of those whom you hate, into the hand of those from whom you were alienated. 29 'They will deal with you in hatred, take all your property, and leave you naked and bare. And the nakedness of your harlotries will be uncovered, both your lewdness and your harlotries. 30 'These things will be done to you because you have played the harlot with the nations, because you have defiled yourself with their idols.

    Maybe if God had talked to His Son first and understood that "For this reason a man ..." was a commandment of God to only have one wife He wouldn't have been in that mess in the first place. Of course, if only the first marriage is God approved, what does that do to Jesus rights to be king as a descendant of David's eighth wife?
     
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