The Cambrian problem

pat34lee · Dec 21, 2015

Subduction Zone said:
Of course it will. Your blanket denials don't prove anything. Talk to the people that have actually done the math.

Once again, the Sun is only a hot ball of gas and all that holds it in place is gravity. Why does the sun hold together, if it isn't due to only gravity? You are merely looking at gas on the Earth and incorrectly using it as a model.

And you are looking at a finished product and assuming that it was
made over time instead of being created as is. I gave someone the
numbers for densities of gases in a nebulae and they are a fraction
of the density of gases in earth's atmosphere.

pat34lee · Dec 21, 2015

Dr GS Hurd said:
"Acceleration of Emergence of Bacterial Antibiotic Resistance in Connected Microenvironments" Qiucen Zhang, Guillaume Lambert, David Liao, Hyunsung Kim, Kristelle Robin, Chih-kuan Tung, Nader Pourmand, Robert H. Austin, Science 23 September 2011: Vol. 333 no. 6050 pp. 1764-1767

“It is surprising that four apparently functional SNPs should fix in a population within 10 hours of exposure to antibiotic in our experiment. A detailed understanding of the order in which the SNPs occur is essential, but it is unlikely that the four SNPs emerged simultaneously; in all likelihood they are sequential (21–23). The device and data we have described here offer a template for exploring the rates at which antibiotic resistance arises in the complex fitness landscapes that prevail in the mammalian body. Furthermore, our study provides a framework for exploring rapid evolution in other contexts such as cancer (24).

You should know that antibiotic resistance is not evolution, but due to loss
of genetic variation in a population. It is basically killing off everything that
is not resistant. The genes were there already, just not in the majority.

pat34lee · Dec 21, 2015

sfs said:
Yet you're perfectly confident that you understand mutations better than the people who study them for hours every day, year after year.

Nope, I'm just more honest. Nobody is paying me to hide the truth.

pat34lee · Dec 21, 2015

lesliedellow said:
But of course. People who would have trouble passing a high school science exam, but who think they know better than all the world's biologists/astrophysicists put together, are not exactly a rarity on here.

I would rather be at odds with a majority of scientists than with the one God.

Trust who you will.

pat34lee · Dec 21, 2015

Subduction Zone said:
Wrong, most studies are repeatable. The same mutations will not occur, but that does not mean that the experiment is not repeatable. You need to learn what "repeatable" means in that context. The source that I used linked to actual peer reviewed work that supported his claim. So far you have provided nothing.

If I add A to B and get C, to be repeatable, every time I add A to B,
I should get C. Not every other time. Not nine times out of ten.

In most experiments of the type you listed, not only do you not get
the same mutations, you may not get any, or you may kill the subjects.
That is not science. It just shows how little they know about DNA.

http://www.nature.com/news/how-scientists-fool-themselves-and-how-they-can-stop-1.18517

Loudmouth · Dec 21, 2015

-57 said:
Coelacanth. Would you like a list of living fossils?

Why don't you show us a fossil specimen of the genus Latimeria, the genus of the living species of coelacanth, to start with.

Loudmouth · Dec 21, 2015

-57 said:
BAMM...they appear as the evos put it...in an advanced state of evolution....with no transitional fossils or linage leading up to there complex forms..

Quite a problem that you claimed has been overcome.

How did you determine that there are no transitional fossils? You still haven't answered this question.

How do you determine if a fossil is transitional or not?

Loudmouth · Dec 21, 2015

pat34lee said:
And you are looking at a finished product and assuming that it was
made over time instead of being created as is. I gave someone the
numbers for densities of gases in a nebulae and they are a fraction
of the density of gases in earth's atmosphere.

We already gave you all of the equations necessary for calculating if a gas cloud can collapse into a star, and you haven't been able to refute any of it.

Loudmouth · Dec 21, 2015

pat34lee said:
I would rather be at odds with a majority of scientists than with the one God.

Trust who you will.

You are at odds with the facts.

Loudmouth · Dec 21, 2015

pat34lee said:
You should know that antibiotic resistance is not evolution, but due to loss
of genetic variation in a population. It is basically killing off everything that
is not resistant. The genes were there already, just not in the majority.

The genes weren't already there. In an experiment done by the Lederbergs' back in the 1950's they tested your theory. They started with a single bacterium. If that single bug was resistant the more than 99% of it's descendants should be resistant. They weren't. In fact, only one in billions of bacteria turned out to be resistant, and that resistance developed in the absence of any antibiotic. You should really read the paper. It is one of the classic genetics papers that first established the randomness of mutations:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC169282/pdf/jbacter00003-0114.pdf

Here's a little snippet from the paper:

They saw just 2 or 3 resistant colonies per 3 billion bacteria. That completely falsifies your claims that they start out resistant.

With modern technology, we can now find the exact mutations that lead to spectinomycin resistance.

"We have isolated and characterized in vitro mutants of the Lyme disease agent Borrelia burgdorferi that are resistant to spectinomycin, kanamycin, gentamicin, or streptomycin, antibiotics that target the small subunit of the ribosome. 16S rRNA mutations A1185G and C1186U, homologous to Escherichia coli nucleotides A1191 and C1192, conferred >2,200-fold and 1,300-fold resistance to spectinomycin, respectively. A 16S rRNA A1402G mutation, homologous to E. coli A1408, conferred >90-fold resistance to kanamycin and >240-fold resistance to gentamicin. Two mutations were identified in the gene for ribosomal protein S12, at a site homologous to E. coli residue Lys-87, in mutants selected in streptomycin. Substitutions at codon 88, K88R and K88E, conferred 7-fold resistance and 10-fold resistance, respectively, to streptomycin on B. burgdorferi. The 16S rRNA A1185G and C1186U mutations, associated with spectinomycin resistance, appeared in a population of B. burgdorferi parental strain B31 at a high frequency of 6 × 10−6."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1366916/

Not that you probably really care because you will completely ignore all of the facts that prove your wrong, go to another thread, and repeat the same falsehoods. Am I wrong?

sfs · Dec 21, 2015

Meanwhile, out here in the real world, beneficial mutations in Plasmodium falciparum are about to start killing people by the hundreds of thousands -- most of them small children. I may not be replying to pat34lee any more. I haven't the stomach for it.

Loudmouth · Dec 21, 2015

sfs said:
Meanwhile, out here in the real world, beneficial mutations in Plasmodium falciparum are about to start killing people by the hundreds of thousands -- most of them small children. I may not be replying to pat34lee any more. I haven't the stomach for it.

It is quite amazing when you find people who are wrong about almost everything. You would think they would get few things right, but they don't.

bhsmte · Dec 21, 2015

Loudmouth said:
It is quite amazing when you find people who are wrong about almost everything. You would think they would get few things right, but they don't.

Why not go for the gusto and get everything wrong?

Loudmouth · Dec 21, 2015

bhsmte said:
Why not go for the gusto and get everything wrong?

I guess it is like shooting the moon in Hearts.

Dr GS Hurd · Dec 21, 2015

pat34lee said:
You should know that antibiotic resistance is not evolution, but due to loss
of genetic variation in a population. It is basically killing off everything that
is not resistant. The genes were there already, just not in the majority.

Obviously you do not know what you are talking about. Some bacteria develop resistance to an antibiotic that targeted a specific receptor by accumulating a modified gene to change the target protein. That is not is not "loss of variation," nor were the genes "there already." In your messed-up thinking there must be a preexisting gene for all possible antibiotics. Think about that a little bit.

Dr GS Hurd · Dec 21, 2015

pat34lee said:
Nope, I'm just more honest. Nobody is paying me to hide the truth.

Paid? Somebody is getting paid?

bhsmte · Dec 21, 2015

pat34lee said:
Nope, I'm just more honest. Nobody is paying me to hide the truth.

Who is paying whom, to hide the truth?

lesliedellow · Dec 21, 2015

bhsmte said:
Who is paying whom, to hide the truth?

I dunno, but it is all part of the one big conspiracy.

Dr GS Hurd · Dec 21, 2015

bhsmte said:
Who is paying whom, to hide the truth?

TBN Ministories "parsonage"

The TBN minsters

Carl Baugh with a fake fossil promoted on TBN;

I know who is paid to "hide the truth." They are paid to lie their pants off.

Subduction Zone · Dec 21, 2015

pat34lee said:
And you are looking at a finished product and assuming that it was
made over time instead of being created as is. I gave someone the
numbers for densities of gases in a nebulae and they are a fraction
of the density of gases in earth's atmosphere.

Yes, gases in a nebula can be very very thin. But nebulae can be very very large. Gravity does not go away. It is an additive force. I am not only looking at the finished product, I am also listening to people that can and have done the math. And the math is not that hard. If I brushed up on my skills I could calculate the gravitational force in a nebulae. I don't know if the ideal gas law still holds at such low pressures, but if I remember correctly the law fails at high pressures, not at low ones. I should be able to calculate the pressure of the gases too.

The Cambrian problem

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