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So, Vegans love it, though it contradicts the teaching of the books in the new testament.
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So, Vegans love it, though it contradicts the teaching of the books in the new testament.It has the same theology as the Gospel of Christ in the same period as the Old Testament (Torah scriptures)!!! For example, there is no animal sacrifice in the Book of Enoch because animal life is highly respected! Those who shed the blood of animals for whatever reason were regarded as evil!
Jude the brother of Jesus used it. Jude must have been mislead by this false book, if only Jude was as wise as today's Christians. how many today are personally trained by the living Jesus?So, Vegans love it, though it contradicts the teaching of the books in the new testament.
He used one part.Jude the brother of Jesus used it.
Please stop slandering me and calling me a "preacher of a false Gospel".T...
To say that Adam was in heaven, in the Garden of Eden, where "the Tree of Life" is just because the book of Revelation says there is a tree of life there is a stretch.
Heaven has always been, there was never a time where heaven and the tree of life did not exist.
But, we are told specifically that God created a Garden in Eden.
...
And since you want to make the Tree of Life in Revelation the same one as in the Garden, answer me this.
Genesis tells us that where Eden was, one river goes out, and splits into four:
"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads." -Gen. 2:10 (KJV)
In Rev. 22:1, there is one river and one river only!
"And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."
You sir, preach another gospel.
Enoch didn't ascend, he was brought up by God. It's not like Enoch was like, meh earth is boring, let's go check heaven out. No, God called him, sent for him, and delivered him."And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." -Jn. 3:13 (KJV)
John Gill comments:
"And no man hath ascended into heaven
Though Enoch and Elias had, yet not by their own power, nor in the sense our Lord designs; whose meaning is, that no man had, or could go up to heaven, to bring from thence the knowledge of divine and heavenly things; in which sense the phrase is used in ( Deuteronomy 30:12 ) ( Romans 10:6 ) , and which may be illustrated by ( John 1:18 ) ; wherefore inasmuch as Nicodemus had acknowledged Christ to he a teacher come from God, our Lord, would have him know, that he was the only teacher of heavenly things, as being the only person that had been in heaven, and in the bosom of the Father; and therefore, if he, and the rest of the Jews, did not receive instructions from him, they must for ever remain ignorant; for there never had been, nor was, nor could be, any mere man that could go up to heaven, and learn the mysteries of God, and of the kingdom of heaven, and return and instruct men in them:
but he that came down from heaven;
meaning himself, who is the Lord from heaven, and came from thence to do the will of God by preaching the Gospel, working miracles, obeying the law, and suffering death in the room of his people, and thereby obtaining eternal redemption for them. Not that he brought down from heaven with him, either the whole of his human nature, or a part of it; either an human soul, or an human body; nor did he descend locally, by change of place, he being God omnipresent, infinite and immense, but by assumption of the human nature into union with his divine person:
[even] the son of man which is in heaven;
at the same time he was then on earth: not that he was in heaven in his human nature, and as he was the son of man; but in his divine nature, as he was the Son of God; see ( John 1:18 ) ; though this is predicated of his person, as denominated from the human nature, which was proper to him only in his divine nature; for such is omnipresence, or to be in heaven and earth at the same time: just as on the other hand God is said to purchase the church with his blood, and the Lord of glory is said to be crucified, ( Acts 20:28 ) ( 1 Corinthians 2:8 ) , where those things are spoken of Christ, as denominated from his divine nature, which were proper only to his human nature; and is what divines call a communication of idioms or properties; and which will serve as a key to open all such passages of Scripture: and now as a proof of our Lord's having been in heaven, and of his being a teacher come from God, and such an one as never was, or can be, he opens and explains a type respecting himself, in the following verse."
Source
This is strengthened by:
"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. Hebrews 11:5 NASB
Old Testament scholar, Gordon Wenham, points out, "The idea of 'was not' cannot merely be a poetic way of saying 'died,' because every other reference to the death of the men in that same genealogy is 'and he died' (eight times). In contrast, Enoch is the only one with this peculiar wording 'and he was not.' But this reflects the same wording used of Elijah's translation to heaven in a chariot of fire, thus avoiding death (2 Kgs 2: 1-10)." (Gordon J. Wenham, Genesis 1-15, vol. 1, Word Biblical Commentary (Dallas: Word, Incorporated, 1998), 128.) Enoch walked in fellowship with God, his life pleased God, and God removed him from the earth without him dying. Where did Enoch go? Did God take him right to heaven? I don't think so because Yeshua said:
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. John 3:13 NASB
Prior to the completion of redemption at A.D. 70, nobody went to heaven."
Source
Enoch says he was taken up, saw, wrote down, brought back to reach and recover, then taken back up.
"1He said, O Enoch, look on the book which heaven has gradually dropped down; (86) and, reading that which is written in it, understand every part of it.
(86) The book which…dropped down. Or, "the book of the tablets of heaven" (Knibb, p. 186).
2Then I looked on all which was written, and understood all, reading the book and everything written in it, all the works of man;
3And of all the children of flesh upon earth, during the generations of the world.
4Immediately after I blessed the Lord, the King of glory, who has thus for ever formed the whole workmanship of the world.
5And I glorified the Lord, on account of his long-suffering and blessing towards the children of the world.
6At that time I said, Blessed is the man, who shall die righteous and good, against whom no catalogue of crime has been written, and with whom iniquity is not found.
7Then those three holy ones caused me to approach, and placed me on the earth, before the door of my house.
8And they said unto me, Explain everything to Mathusala your son; and inform all your children, that no flesh shall be justified before the Lord; for he is their Creator.
9During one year we shall leave you with your children, until you shalt again recover your strength, that you may instruct your family, write these things, and explain them to all your children. But in another year they shall take you from the midst of them, and your heart shall be strengthened; for the elect shall point out righteousness to the elect; the righteous with the righteous shall rejoice, congratulating each other; but the sinners with sinners shall die,
10And the perverted with the perverted shall be drowned.
11Those likewise who act righteously shall die on account of the works of man, and shall be gathered together on account of the works of the wicked.
12In those days they finished conversing with me."
Source
In fact, Enoch says that by the time he finished doing that, he was:
"So that the year is completed in three hundred and sixty-four days." -Enoch 81:7
Scripture says nothing about Enoch being called up, then sent back down, then taken up again at 364.
In fact, it says:
"And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him." -Gen. 5:23-24 (KJV)
Unless you can prove from scripture, not Enoch, but Scripture alone, that Genesis is wrong and Enoch is right, your wrong.
No man has ever done that! No man.
Only Jesus has.
God Bless
Till all are one.
Enoch didn't ascend, he was brought up by God. It's not like Enoch was like, meh earth is boring, let's go check heaven out. No, God called him, sent for him, and delivered him.
As Paul said, Enoch 11:15 - By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
So, both you, and Jesus are right. He didn't ascend up into heaven. He was taken, by God Himself. This is something that also happened Elijah. In the same manner, by a whirlwind he was taken up into heaven. The only difference, is that the book of Jasher, is proven to be older than the Torah.
In order for that verse Jesus is saying to be true in the context you're claiming it is, Elijah being taken up into heaven without dying would have to be false as well. Meaning all of his book, and 2 Kings would be false as well. So, no, Jesus, nor the bible has proven the book of Enoch nor Jasher wrong.
Enoch is alive. He never died, but was transformed in his flesh and taken to dwell in the City of God, in heaven, and rules from there with the Holy Watchers.Dev what do you think it means to be taken to heaven without death? this was always something puzzling to me.
and what about Enoch only living half as long as the other pre flood patriarchs?
He never really died, the bible says that God took him so he wouldn't see death.Dev what do you think it means to be taken to heaven without death? this was always something puzzling to me.
and what about Enoch only living half as long as the other pre flood patriarchs?
Well, circumstantial evidence points to Moses, himself writing the history book called the "Book of the Upright".He never really died, the bible says that God took him so he wouldn't see death.
What I see this as, is just as it was with Elijah when God did the same to him in 2 Kings 2:1. God translated him, and took him up in the same way the book of Jasher talks about Him doing to Enoch, but the only difference and what's cool about it, is that the book of Jasher, is older than 2 kingsIn fact, it's older than the Torah itself.
I thought it was older, but I just read over Joshua 10:18, and you're right. It'd have to be younger than Torah. My bad, I for some reason foolishly came to the wrong conclusion based on his wording.Well, circumstantial evidence points to Moses, himself writing the history book called the "Book of the Upright".
Moses had access to all the records and it compliments Torah, in that it tells what is only referred to in Torah, but filled out in that "Record". It is completed just like Torah, after Moses died, and probably was completed by Joshua.
It is a correct history and the histories continue after it.
We've [persons in our family] been studying both books for several years along with regular Bible study, and find they compliment and add to understanding the entire Torah, prophets, and the Gospels.I thought it was older, but I just read over Joshua 10:18, and you're right. It'd have to be younger than Torah. My bad, I for some reason foolishly came to the wrong conclusion based on his wording.
I deleted that part of the comment so no one would be misled by it, thanks for pointing that out!
The most interesting thing about Ruel leaving the court of Egypt is that he took the "Rod of God" that Adam had been given to reign with, over earth, as high King and High Priest [but he sold earth into sin, at the fall, and could not continue by reason of death, to be "firstborn"...] , and which rod was passed down through the "Firstborn sons " -not meaning the ones born first, but the ones who had the blessing of the office of high king and high priest, which would be preserved through Israel, until Messiah came, whose Rod it is, now....and He will use it to reign over earth with when He returns to reign in His office as "Firstborn", High King and High Priest.
Okay, I'm sorry, I digressed....
in the Garden Jacob had
Let me guess, you're really good at playing horseshoes, right? Because you're really good at throwing hand-grenades through irresponsible posts. Your post is irresponsible because you don't want to have to defend your position with actual evidence, just assertions.So, Vegans love it, though it contradicts the teaching of the books in the new testament.
I think it is held on earth, and Jeremiah hid all the things that pertain to that when Babylon invaded....it may be that there are descendants of Aaron who know where it is, and are waiting for Messiah; but it is His office, and He will be crowned in heaven, take His power to Himself, and reign with it, over earth.Jesus has the rod now?
Torah was written by Moses as "Thus saith YHWH", but the Book of Jasher was written as history. I think Moses wrote it and probably put it down as a redacted record of the histories of the Patriarchs, while he had time to do so during the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness.I thought it was older, but I just read over Joshua 10:18, and you're right. It'd have to be younger than Torah. My bad, I for some reason foolishly came to the wrong conclusion based on his wording.
I deleted that part of the comment so no one would be misled by it, thanks for pointing that out!
Did Jude just use one part of Enoch?He used one part.
In Enoch, the angels who sinned are temporarily bound until the day of judgment.Enoch said:“Bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgment and of their consummation, till the judgment that is for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined forever.”
Enoch said:“Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.”
The four Greek words in this passage, τὸν ὅμοιον τρόπον τούτοις, which the translators of the New American Standard Bible render as in the same way as these, connects the “gross immorality” and the going “after strange flesh” of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, as being of the same character as the sin of certain angels. There’s no mistaking it, Jude believed the sin of these angels was sexual. The sexual nature of the angels’ sin is described in Enoch 7:1,Jude said:“Angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.” (NASB)
Enoch said:“All the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them.”
This quote can be found in Enoch 1:9,Jude said Enoch said:“Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
ConclusionEnoch said:“Behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones to execute judgment upon all, and to destroy all the ungodly: and to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”
1 Peter 3:18-20, "Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah."
not to mention Enoch is at least 400 years older than all those NT books it supposedly contradicts.Let me guess, you're really good at playing horseshoes, right? Because you're really good at throwing hand-grenades through irresponsible posts. Your post is irresponsible because you don't want to have to defend your position with actual evidence, just assertions.
There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to start. But why would I reply? I've replied before and you never responded, and now this!? I've even replied to you about some of the things here. For instance, which of the five or six canons of Scripture in the world today do you subscribe to? Its a real question and can be answered but you chose not to. This is not a discussion. Its an opportunity for you to belch online. Your posts are a waste of space.I'm not gonna argue with you any more.
Fact: The canon of scripture for the Old Testament closed around 300-400 BCE.
Fact: The canon of scripture for the New Testament closed around AD 100 shortly after John died.
The canon will not be opened again, therefore it cannot be used in church, or taught as fact.
The Essenes were the only ones to have a "copy" of Enoch, and then, it was only a fragment.
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